What i mean is; dungeons already take 30 minutes. And that is considered speed-running. I am really not interested in my speed-running mode becoming a 2 hour slog waiting for cd’s all the time. So i prefer 2 different game modes.
I doubt you will have scenarios where you are stuck in a dungeon for 2 hours. The key depletion is still a thing after x amount of deaths… So if you group wipes too many times anyway? Its still a key deplete in place.
You wont invite people just as now with no rating and gear that cant do the key also. So i strongly doubt a m+ is gonna end you up stuck in it for hours. Since keys still deplete after too many deaths.
Right now we have to assign cooldowns. When you get an infinite scaling system without a timer but on deaths you are going to finish higher keys, but it requires every cooldown for every pack. That means it is going to take hours.
You think we will have scenarios where we reach a boss and people be like ‘‘wait guys <.< my cooldown isn’t ready yet… pls wait 10 minutes mkay?’’ xD I mean It can happen… Some sweat lords will definitely be like this.
But you think this will be the norm?
Yes. That is how you succeed your highest keys. That is the direct consequence. Has nothing to do with sweatlords.
Blizzard will surely re adjust our abilities and cooldown to fit the new system in place of this though right? I mean. You bring up a valid scenario… For sure blizzard will have to take this into consideration.
What do you mean by that? No more cooldowns longer than 1 minute?
Remove bloodlust?
I am assuming your talking about cooldowns that last for several minutes already. Since none currently lasts so long you’d end up waiting so long enough. A run would last 2 hours.
We’re talking blood lust cooldowns and cooldowns longer than 5 minutes.
2-3 Minute cooldowns and waiting for them are not going to get us anywhere near close to have to have a dungeon lasting 2 hours imo.
btw people who want timer removed, guess what will happen. you will run 3 tank 2 healer comps all day long…now if that sounds fun to you you are beyond salvation
Waiting 2 minutes between every pull sounds terrible to me too. But yeah we have things like lay on hands on (talented) 7 minutes cooldown or bubble on 5. And the idea is to go a safe as possible. That is the gamemode. So you are going to wait more than 2 minutes between every pack.
Oh, no. It won’t be the same.
Without timer, the meta will be a group of 5 tanks (probably those with good self healing so bad luck to warriors), since without timers you don’t need high DPS, survival is the only thing that matters.
Even if they added a restriction on specs in M+ to force the 1 tank + 1 Healer + 3 DPS setup. You will see smaller trash pulls with CC like sap, sheep, trap, root, etc which will totally trivialize trash. The only real challenge will be bosses, where you will see that specs with better defensives becoming the meta at high keys (since you only need to survive mechanics). Versatility will be BIS stat for all specs. Tank trinkets, PVP trinkets and Cheat death trinkets will also be BIS for all specs.
The entire M+ gameplay, meta specs, gearing, talent choices, etc., evolved around having a timer. Removing the timer, will totally change EVERYTHING.
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My dude… people like Tsjoh and my self will still be playing DPS. Even if the meta is too take forever and play it safe as 5 tanks and one healer. Nobody is going to want to do that. I mean thats just asking for a slow slog and inviting it.
And people are still going to want to play DPS classes and fantasy and make their own groups as well.
Blizzard will also for sure re design dungeons around no timers in a new way we have yet to see. But things will have to be changed.
I know allot of people care about meta specs and classes. But I don’t think they care about it -that- much they would all play tanks and healer specs just too play it safe and spend longer times in dungeons.
For the record; i am a healer since forever.
But when healers arent allowed anymore, maybe i tank.
Wooops 
I am sorry. Ahem.
I saw this quote:
Break the Meta - Currently, damage is the primary concern with rigid compositions catering to this strategy often excluding some classes altogether. Death limits offer an alternative where survivability and dedicated healing are highly valued, CC and defensive utility becomes a potentially larger factor, and compositional and gearing alternatives open up.
So false. Absolutely idiotic.
You cannot tune utility just like that. You would need to homogenize all specs such that they do everything. Its not the same to have 1 40% DR CD every 2 minutes than 2 20% DR CD every 1 minute. Its not the same.
DPS, HPS, and DTPS are things you can tune. A spec is doing too little DPS? No problem. +10% damage.
And because the timer is not an issue, the new meta would be to run with 5 tanks. 5 BDK tanks to be specific.
I would not call that spec diversity in any way or form.
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Nah, just pointing at the obvious, several examples have been shown right before that comment.
Wanting a challenge doesn’t translate to ‘I hate casuals’ — Yet it’s the typical response in the WoW M+ community.
The challenge is still there:
You can still challenge yourself to get that higher M+ score, so you can brag about the orange colored score in your tooltip.
You can still deplete your key if you die too many times. If you barely die, then the keys you’re doing is too low, push yourself to do higher keys.
So if you want a higher M+ score and want to push keys, you can still together with other people push yourself to do the M+ dungeons quick while pushing for higher keys.
The only difference is that with this change key pushers might be able to push their key 1-3 levels higher than currently, because riskier pulls don’t turn into a failed run after 1-2 deaths or a wipe as dying wouldn’t influence the timer with a 30 seconds per death penalty.
The only thing the high key pushers hate is seeing other people with gear.
Because 5 hours of Siege of Boralus probably never happened or is some edge case. Difference between now and this proposal is:
Current: 5 hours of any dungeon gives you less loot if you fail the timer and your key depletes.
Proposal: 5 hours of any dungeon would give you more loot as long as you make sure you don’t die too often.
You mean like the petulant children demanding that this change will never happen because:
‘MUH RIO SCORE!’
‘MUH BRAGGING RIGHTS!’
‘MUH I WANT TO HAVE BETTER GEAR THAN YOU!’
If it’s not, why are so many high key runners opposed to this proposal? If it’s not a speedrun, nothing changes for them if Blizzard made this change.
Sounding or BEING toxic are two different things. I know exactly how the M+ community, especially those in the higher echelons perceive themselves and it’s dead obvious from the comments here.
You can still find thousands of people with the same mindset that will do your runs with you within any set time period.
This proposal is not calling for key pushers to be banned or something, these people don’t disappear from one day to the other.
You don’t have to wait for cooldowns, once again you have multiple methods of communication with which you can make clear what your wishes for a run are and if your wishes don’t align with others, find another group or find another player?
The alternative is:
Guy says something happened IRL and leaves the group.
Group falls apart, you wasted half of the run on nothing, especially if it’s a tank or healer leaving.
“I don’t know how to communicate with my fellow players to make my wishes clear and can’t find like-minded people because I scare people away with toxic remarks!”
Ah yes the typical doomsayer, suddenly the entire world burns because of a single change.
I don’t think it needs a whole lot of changes. Just get rid of those darn keys and reward people well if they fail the keystone timer. I don’t see what’s complicated about any of this or why we’re even entertaining the idea of pulling an Algalon over every dungeon in the game.
This is why i am in a guild, even now while i am not playing on voice with them socialising. I also play with communities, preferable on voice. I actually play a lot because i know how to communicate and have this way a lot of friends. One of the reasons i have filled up vaults on multiple characters. I am playing a lot. I have no trouble finding like minded players.
But thanks for the toxic assumption again.
You are only here to try to offend, so you just got on ignore. Have a nice weekend too.
You’re great with communication but asking people what their intentions are for a run is too much to ask?
‘Hey let’s not stop for cooldowns all the time’ ← One line, takes 1-2 seconds to type. You can even Macro it so you just click a single button within 0.3 seconds.
The only difference after next week will be that an untimed run will give you -4 crests.
If we ignore the crests. How exactly depleting a key gives you less loot? You get the same 2 items in chest(maybe more if you time some super high +12 and above key but dont remember if Blizz kept that feature) and you get your vault chore done…regardless if the run took 20 mins or 2 hours.
First. As much as I noticed in this thread. I didnt see anyone even talking about rio or bragging rights or loot but more mechanical aspects about the changes it could bring.
So if people who have disagreeing opinions you treat them like that and then have the nerve to use the “toxicity card”.
… Before judging others. Maybe first have a long look at the mirror and judge what you see there.