it is the same hey guys you ll stay till the end even if we deplete right? and everyone leaves when you dont time…
Last reply from me because you really can not communicate in a normal way. Even a question needs to be aggressive and offending apparently.
The gamemode is about death = failure. The gamemode creates actively you to wait because of the to be as safe as possible. You aren’t going to succeed without waiting. It is just the gamemode itself. I am not going to ask before a dungeon if they want to succeed or fail.
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Off topic but… damn 13 hours and 915 deaths? Jeesus lol hahaha. 
I remember that 
I have myself quite some 90-120 minutes dungeons too
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Think I saw a key with more time at some later point as well (from the same peeps) but I cant dig that one up.
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I’m sure the brilliant minds at Blizzard can figure out how to tweak the rewards. End-of-dungeon chests tend to have less chances on loot if it was a wipefest no?
Because you have to learn to read between the lines, WHY is someone so opposed to the timer restrictions removed. They are too scared to communicate with their fellow players to make sure the run fits their wishes.
The majority of people opposing this are crying out that they’re not planning to do 2-5 hour runs of a certain dungeon, if you can read between the lines you will know they don’t want to deal with filthy casuals taking their sweet time. Who else are they pointing their fingers at? The other 2500-3000+ RIO players? You really think that’s the people they’re pointing at?
But instead of thinking: ‘Hey if this becomes a thing, I can simply join a group or create a group and make my wishes clear’ ---- NO this change MUST NOT HAPPEN BECAUSE I DON’T WANT TO SIT IN 2-5 HOURS DUNGEON!
They’re just afraid they might come across a casual player during one of their M+ runs and their life is entirely ruined.
Well, personally I stay in runs even if they’re depleted. I’m completely sure however that the ones opposing this idea have had a history of leaving runs because it took too long or other reasons, they’re still angry Blizzard made it a bannable offense to leave groups too often.
Death = Less end-chest loot + depleted key with this proposal, meaning in terms of efficiency it was bad. What difference is there to the current state of M+?
Like I said: Edge case.
What is different is you could have prevented the deaths by waiting for cooldowns. That is exactly the point. Do you want to succeed in the proposal you need to wait for cooldowns.
then you ruin it by saying
no need for it and you lost any arguement you might of had
I am aware of what you said. And if you think people will not spent more time in keys and wait for CDs for every pack if needed then just lol.
Also absolute bull. High key pushers don’t give a rats what gear you have.
No. The base loot is fixed. They even increased the loot a depleted key gave with the second item only being 1 upgrade behind (so instead of Hero 2/6 you would get a Hero 1/6) and even that got removed I’m pretty sure.
That isnt high rating.
Then make them crystal clear for every grp you join unless you wish to earn a suspension for leaving first.
I don’t leave depleted groups. I even join weekly no leaver groups. I’m still against it. Rather make it so that keys dont get degraded if you brick it and as such have more people willing to put up their own keys in the first place.
Nobody cares about the end of dungeon loot chest
Also this. Your suggestion would rather support the behavior for groups to wait for CDs between every single pack.
The irony in that statement is baffling.
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I have no idea where you even came up with this.
You finish the dungeon. You get 2 guaranteed items in the chest. DONE. Doesnt’ matter if it took 30 mins or 3 hours.
People opposing your idea are not doing out of spite. Your change fundamentally changes m+ what it is. A timed run where they test your efficiency. You want to make it it a…delve? 5 man raid?
Tweaks and small deviations can be discused. Like we got many basketball deviations(water basketball, streetball and etc.), yet all share the same core of the basketball. Your idea in comparison wants to make it like football but still call it a “basketball”. If I want to play football/soccer… I can play football/soccer. Not some weird basketball where you “play with your feet” instead.
And when people try explaining that to you. You just refuse to listen and start screaming some weird conspiracy “u high rio elitist, toxic gatekeeper” what else.
You can already do that just fine. Make a group with 4 other people whom you want to run the dungeon in whatever speed you want and have fun? You don’t need to fundamentally change m+ just to do that, hence the argument even is more moot.
Again with this “toxic elitist” conspiracy. Maybe its you who cannot read between the lines. Or heck you so obsessed with “evil elitists” that your paranoia is starting to see them everywhere. Even when there is nobody there.
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M+ Losses in current state:
Your key can deplete.
You can get less end-chest loot from dying too often.
You get less RIO/M+ score from a depleted/bad or casual run.
M+ losses in proposal state:
Your key can deplete.
You can get less end-chest loot from dying too often.
You get less RIO/M+ score from a depleted/bad or casual run.
The only difference of some significance this brings is that dying doesn’t directly affect your run with a 30 seconds penalty like it does now.
Let’s say the record is 30 minutes exactly on a +19 whatever dungeon. With the new situation you might be able to break that record by forgoing your chances on loot by making far riskier pulls and breaking the timer by a few minutes.
It also might lead to being able to push 1-3 higher key levels. It just pushes the highest run possible by 1 or a few.
Communication is key x9000.
Then they wouldn’t care about this change either as nothing changes for them, they can still push keys with other people that want to push keys.
The point remains the same regardless of what is the higher echelons of M+ people.
Yeah, not so difficult right?
But how does this change make it worse for people that want to push?
Casuals do.
if that’s the case, you’re not in a push group. You joined the wrong group of people because of miscommunication.
Since when is a Wowhead article ‘my idea’?
The core remains the same:
M+ Losses in current state:
Your key can deplete.
You can get less end-chest loot from dying too often.
You get less RIO/M+ score from a depleted/bad or casual run.
M+ losses in proposal state:
Your key can deplete.
You can get less end-chest loot from dying too often.
You get less RIO/M+ score from a depleted/bad or casual run.
The only difference of some significance this brings is that dying doesn’t directly affect your run with a 30 seconds penalty like it does now.
… and you can still push keys even with this change. So your argument would be equally moot.
Haha, I’m sure you’re talking about the higher echelons of key pushers when you’re talking about:
“I don’t want to spend 5 hours in a dungeon”
“I don’t want to wait for cooldowns all the time”
Everyone knows NO high key pusher is going to constantly wait for cooldowns in a dungeon UNLESS something is bugged badly balanced or otherwise unachievable.
Everyone knows you and others mean casuals, no real key pusher is going to do this, you know it yourself because you’re so vehemently opposed to it, with you there’s hundreds/thousands of others that don’t want to wait.
Nothing changes. You’re just angry for no reason.
What if they keep the timer but instead of the key downgrading and getting no/less loot at the end you just gain less mythic + score instead ?
You completely change the gamemode.
Of course. The game having meta specs doesn’t mean the other specs magically disappear.
5 tanks with no healer (healers are as squishy as DPS players).
Currently the highest runs are 17-19 (depending on dungeon). Is it possible to do M+25 in any dungeon now? Most likely it’s impossible. Without a timer, would it be possible to do M+25 with 5 tanks? Probably easily.
No, they won’t all change to tanks, but if 5 tanks meta is allowed to happen, they would definitely feel left out.
Too tired to re-write it so I will just quote myself instead.
So Blizzard needs to invest resources, manpower into a system which changes absolutely nothing besides making some guy named Frieran happy? Reminds me of politican talk who “promises to build a bridge even when there is no river there”.
You are the one screaming “ELITIST!!!” at almost everyone who disagrees with you here.
And I am the “angry” one?
Do go on… 
Talking about toxic.
Calm down. Where did I use the word ‘elitist’ – Are you delusional?
Now, that’s dedication!
I think you need to address your own toxic self first.
You admitted yourself that the idea will fundamentally will change nothing. So me and like any person who used common sense calling out an idea which costs resources to make but will change nothing in the end and is thus an “expensive paperweight”…toxic?
Oh and I am calm. Was actually bored out of my mind in this night shift. So keep the entertainment coming
I will give 1000 gold to last poster above me if you will use the nitpick argument “yeah but I didnt use the exact word - elitist!..even if the general idea is the same”. 
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