Discussing the recent story developments consequently prompts one important question: What is honour?
The issue is that one can never say with absolute certainty that someone is honourable or someone is dishonourable. For example, European and Japanese understanding of honour are perhaps different.
So tell me, people of the story forum, what idea of honour follows the Horde in your opinion and why?
There’s no honour in the modern nu-Horde.
There is more than one form of honour? ![:crazy_face:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/crazy_face.png?v=6" ":crazy_face:")
Me confused
None, Sylvanas Windrunner literally stated that honor means nothing to her.
And before you say it, the Alliance also committed dishonorable acts in the past, such as Jaina causing Rastakhan’s death (and it was so, so satisfying), but, spoilers, We don’t care.
Good talk, bud
Not killing innocents? Not abandoning your soldiers? Fighting to the death?
Honestly, there is no way to explain it concisely, nor can it be treated objectively. It’s just too vague of a concept.
That’s also why it’s plain stupid to base the Horde’s entire identity on “honor”. It’s a good buzzword for pretty speeches, but that’s about it. “The Horde is honourable” won’t mean anything. It’s also why they should’ve gone for another route. Why didn’t they build on the idea of the Horde as a refuge for outcasts and mistrusted races? The Horde as a family? I guess that didn’t appeal enough to the “Lok’tar!” screeching orc mains at Blizzard, but you can’t tell me “honour” is a good way to answer the question “What is the Horde about and what does it stand for?”
Horde =/= Honour
This is mostly an orcish thing.
Giving everybody a chance to fight back.
Example:
If an Orc warrior wants to kill some old grandma, he’ll give her a sword and kill her. It doesn’t matter if his victim didn’t want, or isn’t able to fight. As long as his “enemy” had a chance to fight back, he’s happy to slaughter.
The same Orc warrior will whine like a pathetic baby about being oppressed, when someone more powerful comes along and imprisons/lectures him.
That’s why I respect sylvanas. She doesn’t give a 
about anything and will do whatever it takes to get her way.
I wouldn’t give away my dolphin too!
What a monster. Doesn’t give dolphins. Therrme is no honor in this…
Honor is what I say it is.
Lead us, my husbando!
I would say a set of values and ideas meant to set the current Horde apart from the demonic Horde of Gul’dan, but also a way to manifest one’s pride and dignity.
Ideas like: Not slaugthering the weak and defenseless, both because it is seen as cruel, but also makes you seem weak, as if you are on the same level as them.
Not opressing people or forbidding magical practices, to avoid doing like Gul’dan while also showing respect to different walks of life.
Protecting each other because you live in a world that is constantly out to get you and the Horde is all you have.
No to a corpse, as in someone dead…
Someone who could had been saved.
She never meant herself with that Sentence.
Your mental gymnastics never fail to amuse me. I do hope that Sylvanas doesn’t die in the end for your sake. Your brain might explode if that happened.
( US honor )
(mass noun) High respect; great esteem.
1.1 (in singular) A person or thing that brings esteem.
1.2 (His", “Your”, etc. "Honour) A title of respect or form of address given to a circuit judge, a US mayor, and (in Irish or rustic speech) any person of rank.
The quality of knowing and doing what is morally right.
2.1 (dated) A woman’s chastity or her reputation for being chaste.
Something regarded as a rare opportunity and bringing pride and pleasure; a privilege.
3.1 A thing conferred as a distinction, especially an official award for bravery or achievement.
3.2 (honours) A special distinction for proficiency in an examination.
3.3 (honours) A course of degree studies more specialized than for an ordinary pass.
3.4 (Golf) The right of driving off first, having won the previous hole.
Bridge
4.1 (honours) Possession in one’s hand of at least four of the ace, king, queen, jack, and ten of trumps, or of all four aces in no trumps, for which a bonus is scored.
4.2 (in whist) an ace, king, queen, or jack of trumps.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/honour
You simply just has to analyse what is said in her speech.
-Honor.
-death
-saving
-worthy
-warrior’s Death.
The only time during the Speech.
She mentioned herself was in the end.
Thus indeed it did not matter to her if Saurfang would go die a pointless Death.
She could always make use of his Corpse.
Now before that she mentions Honor how it is pointless once it is dead.
She then changes the Tone to make Saurfang seem like the bad guy.
By saying he does not care if the Horde is killed off so long as they follow his code of conduct.
She then politically cleverly make herself sound like the New Hope of the Horde.
By saying that to her saving the Horde from annihilation is something Worth figting for.
All it takes is a small bit of Speech analyse.
You are not incorrect that Honor is not her cup of tea,however the Segment of the speech you used, referes not to herself but simply to someone who died.
The Exchange between the Two, is very interesting Because Sylvanas makes Someone as loved and respected as Saurfang be represented as the Villain.
He is portrayed as a suprematist that simple wants everyone to die.
And she puts herself on the - I will save us all- Spot Light.
We then Cit to Baine’s Criticism of leaving Saurfang to die, Sylvanas again making it sound like she’s the good guy by A stating it was his own Wish and then B inviting Baine to join Saurfang.
At the same time we also see her two faced political Play here.
Having gotten rid of one Pillaer of the Horde that could ruin her plans, to try and get rid of the Second Liability to her plans ahead.
Want any other Speech analysed?
Honour can only mean something once we stop Sylvanas from destroying us all!
That’s the thing.
You’re not listening to what she says.
You need to ANALYSE her words. That’s mental gymnastics.
There is a WQ where Talanji tells you “This monster is a threat. Eliminate it”.
Now. She doesn’t tell you to kill that monster! She tells you to eliminate the threat. And what is threat exactly? Is it the existence of that monster? Or just the fact that it is right here and now in this particular time and this might cause a threat?
Perhaps what she really says is that you just catch that monster and relocate it!
This is mental gymnastics.
What he is saying is not mental gymnastics, it is mental gymnastics to read what Sylvanas said any other way, she is quite literally saying honor mean’s nothing to a dead person;
“Honor means nothing to a corpse, Saurfang. You have the luxury of underestimating death, but it is something with which I am intimately familiar.
Maybe you don’t care if your people die so long as it is honorable, but to me, this Horde is worth saving. Anyone who disagrees does not deserve to stand among us.
So die your warrior’s death, High Overlord Saurfang. It means little to me. Perhaps I will raise your broken body to serve me once more.
Or perhaps you will have a chance to say hello to your son.”
There is a Taunka chieftain in Borean Tundra who says pretty much exactly the same thing, without the sass.
The question of how far are you willing to go and how much are you ready to sacrifice to stand with your idea of honor is conceptually interesting to base a story around.
Maybe Blizz will surprise me, but i doubt they will go with that one.