What will be the future of M+?

At what point will there be done a proper rehaul of mythic+?

I simply cannot believe that Blizzard is served by current iteration of things where significant numbers of players are leaving the game daily, simply due to the endless queue-simulator.

The entire community is calling for a change, and there are plenty of community-proposed changes that could be implemented for a positive change. I challenge any Blizzard employee to show me one solitary person that enjoys the fact that keys can be depleted.

We don’t need a Blizzard employee to show us. Lots of people here like depletion, someone will show up eventually and support it.

Eh, in the first iteration keys literally bricked. Having to re-run a key without rewards just to get a valid key again. The current “depletions” is “nothing” compared to that.

I think the depletion is mostly fine, really. In the end not being able to time a key does imply that you should attempt a lower level again, in my opinion.

What I do not like is the random nature of the dungeon it’s about. On the other hand, being able to choose the dungeon will flat-out cause some dungeon to be close to never done in pugs. And some are done all the time due to a.) difficulty b.) rewards.

So any change to the key structure would also have implications on the reward structure. There’s no simple change, any change affects everything, implicitly.

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I think not much are liking depletion (or downgrading) but understand it is for the health of the gamemode and players. Most are supporting some addition to the keysystem like 3 charges on a key or something. But not infinite tries.

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Because the best way to improve is to go backwards.
You improve by practising, and that is best done in the area you want to improve. You don’t improve Mythic Raiding by doing Heroic raiding everytime you wipe.

Keys should not deplete if the dungeon is completed (untimed).
This won’t help much in PuG situations as PuGs will just disband the second it becomes remotely likely the run won’t time. But in social groups they’re more likely to stay together and finish the run.

The problem with M+ is too many players want to do it for the wrong reasons (gear only).
M+ should be about achievements and completing challenges.
I see threads along the lines of I hate M+, I hate affixes, I hate rushing. Those players are doing it just for the gear.

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True.

But when it comes to depletion, this season is especially brutal when completion rates are so low. So they either nerf the dungeons (and affixes causing the difficulty walls) or ease on the depletion.

Because even people that do it for completing challagnes get sick of not having any sense of progression weeks on end.

Leaving things as they are is the worst solution possible. So something has to give.

They might have made it too hard to create feedback they can then “respond” to.

“We’ve seen lots of people say blah blah blah and we’ve decided to respond to this feedback by doing blah blah blah.”

That way Blizzard get to do what they want and make it seem like they listened to feedback.

But in the first iterations (and in the second as well), you had to run way way way lower keys with only fortified or tyrannical might I add, for the highest rewards…

The difficulty for the highest reward has immensely increased since Legion.
It used to be m15 (current m5) and with utterly broken classes also (remember how many garbage we did not have back in Legion? Like the AoE cap? The dps trinket gate for non dps classes? and the list goes on).

Shadowlands nerfed the loot amounts for 3 to 2 + implemented a ton of player nerfs.
DF increased the loot cap to m20 (current m10).
TWW implemented fortified + tyrannical to m10 (old m20).

The last 3 expansions have all nerfed gains / buffed the difficulty in a row.
We are no longer talking about the same things so I agree a change is indeed in order.

I can imagine situations where players miss a timer by 18 seconds. They think “Maybe the first pull could have saved 10 or 12 seconds if we did X, let’s try again”.
Now you have to run the lower key and then try again. There isn’t a try and try again approach that such challenges should have. It’s try, do punishment, try again later.

Keys with 3 charges would work.
No deplete if untimed completion should work.
A re-run current instance option if completed untimed might work.

There are ways they could improve the key operation. Most won’t improve PuGing much though. But M+ was never really designed for Pugging hence no match making system.

That might be true for organized groups, for PUGs it mostly happens because some player suddenly leaves for no reason (had someone leave my key after literally the fist trash pack - with no probs occuring) or having misjudged someone’s skill based on rating/gear who doesn’t deliver accordingly.

A depleted key is just added punishment to already wasted time and hits one person - the key holder - especially, who mostly isn’t the person responsible for the failed run.

No, but you do improve from perfecting a +7 to prepare for a +10, as the mechanics are all the same. Heroic raids tend to have less mechanics to deal with than Mythic raids, no? Even M0 teaches you what’s going on. Then you just have to wrap your head around the weekly changing affix…

And yes, in keys between 2 and 10 (including 10) people fail at handling the basic mechanics. Ergo; learn the stuff before pushing.

Ofc there is a hurdle from 11 to 12 (as I’ve heard, didn’t get there (yet)), but that’s not really a depletion issue.

Who are you to tell others that they do it for the wrong reason? ;p Does M+ give gear and crests? Yes. Is it a weird reason to do M+ for? No. You are weird for calling that a wrong reason.

I mean, if you don’t do it for the crests and weekly reward then idk what people do M+ for other than just enjoyment. Well, good for them the scaling is endless. But the vast majority never reaches that level anyways, they stick to the part where it’s mostly about gearing (and 2k, 2.5k achievement perhaps).

The whole M+ reward structure is weird, though, and would benefit from adding more cosmetic-like rewards.

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Nobody forced them to do m+ only with pugs.
If you take a rope and tie it yourself around your neck…then dont blame Blizzard that you cant breathe.

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They don’t have to go with complete strangers. That’s a choice, and one accepts the risks it brings when taking this path. There is no risk-free pugging experience.

Want to make sure your time is not wasted (well, it never is as one should play a game for fun) then make sure that others don’t waste it. Add players to your friend-list, look at those M+ communities, find decent guilds,…it’s not that hard.

I don’t think it’s good when midcore raiders are able to get myth track M+ vault rewards in week 1 of a season. It makes heroic raids feel unrewarding from the start, and it makes getting BiS gear too quick.

Getting myth track items from the M+ vault should be as hard as getting myth track items from mythic raids. I think this is the first season where the M+ vs mythic raid difficulty is balanced well.

The thing Blizz needs to work on is class balance. Resto shaman was way too strong for too long, for example. That kind of OPness needs to be fixed within 1 or max 2 weeks.

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What changed that they’re not OP strong anymore? Nothing (only poison totem cooldown increased, but one can reset it once every two minutes anyways…). What did Disc get? Nothing (before the shift started).

It was all about Elemental/Enhancement starting to be broken, which offer the same utility…

Stop looking at the result and start looking at the causes.

A proper selection of dungeons would be nice.

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Resto shaman is so OP that groups prefer a dps shaman over resto and take disc priest.

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-character-rankings/season-tww-1/world/all/healer
When this looks resto shaman OP to you then sure you have a point. But to me it does not.

If you fail a +10 by less than 20 seconds then you can reflect on your performance and consider where you might find those 20 seconds.
If you fail a +10 by 45 seconds then sure some +7s might be useful to understand the instance better.

Since you can choose to lower your key then you should be able to decide which form of practise would help you better.

When chromie gets time from her busy schedule

Point is that it worked perfectly fine for the last two expansions or more; if they insist on keeping M+ as hard/punishing as it is now, they have to balance it in some way or they are just going to lose players.

Modern people like flexibility; it’s why M+ is more popular than raiding; forcing players into playing with the same ppl all the time on a fixed schedule will just cause a decline in M+ participation as it already happened for raids.