Saw this thread in the US forum and thought it was worth sharing.
Also someone's comment:
This is the reality of warlocks in Vanilla:
Only warriors tank
Only priests heal
Only rogues, mages, warriors, and hunters DPS.
Druids are there to Innervate the priest. Otherwise they can AFK.
Pallies are there to roll blessings and AFK.
Locks are there to debuff for the mages, give the tanks healthstones and AFK.
If it is any different it isn't truly classic.
Be prepared to spend a lot of time farming shard bag mats in felwood so you can store shards for your healthstones.
Be prepared for having to use a phase shifted imp because none of your pets will stay alive in essentially any group content.
Be prepared for significant debuff limits which means you can't put dots up or you eat debuff slots that the mages and rogues need.
Be prepared for voidy being in an even worse state than in bfa. He can't hold threat and he has no health.
Be prepared to spend hours hoping for a world epic to drop so you can get 10% of the gold you need for a mount.
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I dont plan on partaking in the engaging content and rotations of classic xd
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04/11/2018 09:57Posted by RâlphI dont plan on partaking in the engaging content and rotations of classic xd
What? you Don't want to have a drink and eating break after a mob? You Don't like WANDING?
"omg kids these days"
Why would you cause so much pain and suffering to yourself by playing classic? !0 times worse than current game :P especially for warlocks
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04/11/2018 11:52Posted by ZaigarWhy would you cause so much pain and suffering to yourself by playing classic? !0 times worse than current game :P especially for warlocks
false - anything before WoD is the MMORPG part of WoW, anything after is just an MMO
i.e. classic is better than live
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04/11/2018 12:18Posted by Acceleroi.e. classic is better than live
Accelero is such a low quality troll...
Be prepared for missing your spells for numerous times before actually landing the spell on the mob xD
04/11/2018 12:28Posted by Râlph04/11/2018 12:18Posted by Acceleroi.e. classic is better than live
Accelero is such a low quality troll...
I'm really not though - if live had as many spells as Vanilla does then live would be a million times better but in terms of RPG it's just 1000 times worse than Vanilla because of this one thing called pruning
actually i take that back theres way too many things that are bad with live like 4 raid/dungeon difficulties etc. so it needs way too much work to pass vanilla
vanilla isn't perfect by any means but it's still a thousand times better than current live
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30/0/21, keep your asigned curse on the boss, corruption depending how they will handle debuffslots in classic and then spamm shadowbolt and hope to be lucky enough to get an early Anti-aggro trinket from Fankriss when AQ is realesed so you can just cast cast cast cast without babysitting aggro meter :)
Only rogues, mages, warriors, and hunters DPS.
Locks are there to debuff for the mages, give the tanks healthstones and AFK.
[/quote]
Hunter dont dps they are in the raid to dispell enrage of the boss, dps comes second and if they run out of mana feign death and drink....
Locks do great dmg during vanilla seems like you didnt play....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxq3ekCZBDw
Sure Mage gets there later on but thats after the meelewall with Nature ress crash after enrage and he gets the ignite roll from all the other mages :)
In the words of the wise Roger Murtaugh:
https://melmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/1XMeJAVGGKbakvBAb1Nd_6Q.jpeg
https://melmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/1XMeJAVGGKbakvBAb1Nd_6Q.jpeg
Yes, lets talk Vanilla, the good all days of the lack of instant cast spells for locks.
You HAD TO cast immolate in order to use Conflagrate it was quite !@#$ back then as well,
And we had, RUIN talent where our crits dealt 100% more damage. Warlocks were the ONLY class that had it.
There was a brief time where a talent in destruction tree reduced the cast time of imp fireball to about 0.5 sec (I think) *Mini-gunner* imp days.
I joined WoW just after the patch that made Banish spell useless, it could only banish elemental and demons now.
You HAD TO cast immolate in order to use Conflagrate it was quite !@#$ back then as well,
And we had, RUIN talent where our crits dealt 100% more damage. Warlocks were the ONLY class that had it.
There was a brief time where a talent in destruction tree reduced the cast time of imp fireball to about 0.5 sec (I think) *Mini-gunner* imp days.
I joined WoW just after the patch that made Banish spell useless, it could only banish elemental and demons now.
14/11/2018 13:21Posted by Gankrel
There was a brief time where a talent in destruction tree reduced the cast time of imp fireball to about 0.5 sec (I think) *Mini-gunner* imp days.
[/quote]
Class trinket from BWL :D
13/11/2018 19:04Posted by Linkwastaken
Only rogues, mages, warriors, and hunters DPS.
Locks are there to debuff for the mages, give the tanks healthstones and AFK.
Hunter dont dps they are in the raid to dispell enrage of the boss, dps comes second and if they run out of mana feign death and drink....
Locks do great dmg during vanilla seems like you didnt play....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxq3ekCZBDw
Sure Mage gets there later on but thats after the meelewall with Nature ress crash after enrage and he gets the ignite roll from all the other mages :)[/quote]
You really can't use private servers for anything close to real dps comparisons to classic since the armor/resistances on mobs are always bugged.
SM Ruin was a solid Warlock spec.
Sounds like elitist guild mentality. I plan to avoid that, and enjoy the game.
Ok so before I begin, I have to say after 14 years playing wow, nothing can be compared with vanilla and this is not just nostalgia. Game had many weak points - it is true - BUT still game was awesome.
So first things first:
True, they did. Good luck though toping def rating for crashing blow.
Hmmm nope. Druids and Pallas were great healers. Specially for AQ40 and Naxx.
Yes and no:
Rogues were good on dps. GL farming swiftthistle tea.
Mages only frost on BWL, MC, Onyxia. Since I’ve start playing mages had nerf after nerf. Eventually they were toping dps meters in trash and some aoe fights. Other classes had poor, or no aoe dmg at all.
Warriors yes topping meters but hard to play. They had to find good weapon though.
Hunters were ok. They were having more fun in pvp.
No druids they were great healers and the strongest class in pvp. Paladin will remain the best healer for bgs and great tank for dungeons were ppl used to farm mounts and scourge insignia in every single patch. If it was like you said, no one would invite pallas and druids in raids.
HELL NO. Apart from 3 op curses and 3 hearthstones, warlock damage was extremely high. You see vanilla lore was based in warcraft 3, and God, shadowbolt was the pure damage spell, as shadow is the strongest among elements. In my guild we had 7 locks at least for a 40 man raid. Among other dps, warlock was the only one that could upkeep without much attention of healing. Warlock tiers was providing heal per 5 sec, combining with some drain life and druids hots, would save strong healing spells for hard times.
Nope. 15 min farm in western plague lands was enough to store shards for 3 hours raid and as a demonlock i was filling 5 bags and having some in bank aswell. Other warlocks who don’t need a tone of shards, such SM/Ruin, could farm shards in trash fights - it was enough for the raid.
Yes it’s true. However all pet were useful:
Imp - Still good for 5% stamina buff specially raids
Void - Very good for instances and some aoe farming and lvling up.
Succubus - Best for duels, best tank for farming shards in pvp server.
Fel Hunter - BG best option.
As a demonlock you sacrifice pets depending on bossfight (2xvoid and 1xsuccu in every princess huhuran pull, sac imp for aoe bossfights etc.)
Nope. You don’t need dots, you have SB as I said before. Each warlock reserves a spot for one curse, and most of the time immolate and corruption deals more dmg than other debuffs.
Nope. Aggro was hard in general back then. Even in boss fights you couldn’t just sb on pull. Succubus was better tank anyway if you knew how to use her.
Nope. Professions for vanilla was providing enough gold. I remember selling mooncloth cd every week.
But you missing a point here. Vanilla was not about what was the best class but what you like to play. This is why people nowdays QQ. Ofcourse if you choose a class that is gonna be imba, nerf is waving at you. If you are going to cry because fel hunter class quest is so long, then warlock is not for you, or maybe vanilla is not for you.
Please, don’t whine about that, the game has not even released yet. Leave devs to make their job
Edited: To answer your question DS/Ruin. Not only I was able to survive the toughest raid fights due to instant summon void + sac, but i was destroying everything with my shadow bolt and/or rain of fire/Hellfire. Do not forget that 40 man raids used to have a lot of trashes and many mini bosses. You had to have strong aoe to progress.
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That’s simply a lie. Vanilla had the worst class balance, extremely pruned classes, few valid talent builds were actually viable… Literally only warriors tanked, a lot of classes only had a place in raids due to them providing certain buffs. Warlocks, for example, were only allowed to do good dps if they were provided a debuff slot. Because the number of debuffs in a given target was limited, and therefore casting corruption (for example) could supress a more important debuff. Same reason why affliction was unplayable in raids, etc.
The game is much better now, even if BFA is a poorly designed beta of a game.
Ok first, there was no affliction in raiding. Affliction in Vanilla was for pvp only.
I never used a single corruption in raiding. Not only was a waste of global cd but in my spec there was no points left for making Corruption instant spell.
SM/Ruin & DS/Ruin was the usual raiding specs and dpsing was not a problem, most of the times were topping dps. We even tanking certain bosses vanilla and tbc, what will never happen in future expansions
I never stated that class balance was there. As I said previously everyone plaid each class and enjoyed it and everyone was important both in raids and pvp. It was bad or it was good. Read carefully my post.
I dont know what “better” means to you but fore me sure vanilla was much more fun than bfa is today for many reasons, even if I believe bfa is the best thing that happened in wow the last decade.
Don’t charge on me lad, what I did was to defend vanilla as was not as glitched that people believe today.
As about that:
I remember people playing their characters even with their flaws without complaining. And I am not the only one who believes that, you may claim that is my foolish opinion, but not a lie.
As it for class balance today
- Demonology for m+ and some raid bosses.
- Destruction for mythic raid & pvp.
- Affliction …
Enough said.
SM ruin, which was the most common dps spec, had instant corruption. DS/Ruin had not. In any case, you did not need instant corr: instant corruption was a waste of points as your dps was still limited by the gcd, meaning casting times below 1,5 were not really useful, except in fights with high mobility. Casting corruption and agony made dps increase (at least in the SM/Ruin build), but in practice, it was useless due to the debuff limit.
In any case, affliction was not viable in pve… but it wasn’t viable in pvp either. A simple dispel would reduce your damage to 0. The change introduced by TBC and WotLK were enormous in terms of actually making the classes and specs feel and play in a unique, funny and complete, and your class is the tool you use to play the game. We enjoyed Vanilla because we did not know better, but once I played WotLK and TBC i would not have gone back to Vanilla even if I was paid.
Yeah, BFA has a LOT of mistakes. I did not play WoD, so I can’t really compare it to BFA, but it seems pretty clear that WOD and BFA (till this moment, maybe 8.2 can fix it) have been the worst expansions. However, even if I admit that BFA is a bad work by Blizz, I think you have a bad case of nostalgia. Vanilla was full of mistakes that were not obvios because there was nothing else to compare it to.
In fact, the fact that SM/Ruin and DS/Ruin were the most common specs, speaks volumes about how limited the game was: literally, a warlocks job in pve could be done by homer simpson’s water drinking bird. Just put a curse of elements/shadows in the target, and spam shadow bolt, with the occasional life tap. That. Was. It.
We would see how Blizzard treats Vanilla. But I think most of the people that want to play classic won’t have the patience for it.
That is the keyword lad, this why I first said Vanilla was what you like and not what is better. And True TBC was far better and I would’t play Vanilla. All classes before worlk had it’s own ID and speciality. What now is: DPS/HPS race.
As rank 7 in Vanilla I can confirm that Affliction Tanklock was a very strong defender in both Arathi and Warsong. Dispell back then was costing mana to healers and was removing one debuff only. Not all healers could dispell curse not all healers could dispell corruption. I was spending 50g (+50g to respec back) at the end of each week to respec into DP/SB and make my life way easier in bgs. Not to mention how many rogues who tried to duel me and left up cursing.
Nope. There was a variety of specs for each class. You can check warlock vanilla builds in wowikki. (some hybrid raiding specs missing)
Same raid we were 7 locks, 2xDS/ruin 2xSM/ruin 1xNight/FD/ruin and 2 Firelocks.
Don’t expect to top dps meters on every boss, every lock had its potency for different boss fights.
Of course the problem here is how updated your guild is? I know many ppl stack with SM/ruin simple because their old fashion class leader believes that bloodpact is very important in each raidgroup in BWL and AQ. If you stuck in such a guild and wondering why you still progressing MC while Naxx is coming, is your mistake.
THAT IS SO UNTRUE. The fact that lock was the only self sustain class with high dps says it all. You are right about most of the fight being spam sb but progressing through raids was a lot more than that. Here is an example of few fights that I had to sacrifice 2-3 different pets during fight, spam drain life, hellfire and/or rain of fire, immolate targets, aggro adds, interrupt, fear, howl of terror:
BWL - Chromo, Nefarian
AQ 40 - Prophet, Sartura, Fankris, Bug Trio (omg this boss 5 pets summon), Princess, 2xEmperors.
Naxx - Anub Rekhan, Faerlina, Rezuvios, Heigan, Harvester, 4xHoursemen, Loatheb. (maybe more, tbc came out before we finish naxx)
That means most of them if your guild already progressed and got geared up, spamming sb is the fastest way to get done.
Now tell me honestly, other than very rarely interrupting and managing your cd’s how often did you change your rotation in same spec on uldir/bd on same patch?
What we have now is just more spells to fit in our rotation, our playstyle wont change from boss to boss until a patch nerf something or boost, so we need to adapt.
Once again I am not criticising your opinion, all I am saying that vanilla was not THAT bad, lot of bugs yes (none that made game unplayable or frustrated), but it was more free and fun. Sure nostalgia is there but hell, was a great game and more free. You can check some videos in youtube how many things players discovered before blizzard and how late took them to balance things.
Maybe I enjoyed more Vanilla because my guild on non raid times was making pvp groups, world bosses, leveling alt groups, raiding undercity, farming scourge insignia, doing epic quests.
Was much more fun than farming m+, ap for hoa and wishing for titanforge or socketed items.