What would cause you to consider teldrassil repayed?

[Steabra-blackmoore]

What have the NPCs done to you that you want repayment?

[Kixen-stormscale]

Absolutely not. Thats you interpretation. This is answer to your “Horde stcks together”, no they dont and rightfully so.

You realise immediately before this event is the Horde, United, at the broken shore. Then her ascension to Warchief, in the cinematic she seems pretty well supported so either you can disprove that or you are wrong.

Yes.

No.

Take it as you want, but thats the case.

So if, hypothetically, I punched you directly in the face, then said, truce though? you think you would need to explain to me how I have wronged you? That’s basically what you are saying the horde ought to have done.

Why is that ?

Because he calls for peace after stormheim having done nothing to smooth anything over. Of course it was going to fail, it was a pretty miserable effort.

Thats exactly what I mean. To give some ground to build it up and start talks and diplomatic delegations exchanged between two factions. Which Sylvanas seemed to have stomped out in Arathi.

Bringing Calia along seems a pretty poor effort to start building diplomatic bridges.

Says a Hordie, whos two prominent race have done the same thing for ages. Preservation is important.

Hah, so no refute then. So Gilneans did have something coming then.

I can prove my opinion with sources and opinions from other Chracters on all of the things Sylvanas said showcasing why they are wrong and right, unlike you just throwing Bias bullcr@p at my face.

No, you can’t. You entire point there is basically “this is the truth, then this part are lies! then that’s truth then that’s a lie” You are rejecting anything written that disagrees with your narrative. Like I said, the literal definition of confirmation bias.

You dont need showing. Its stated in the book, you just have to read it.

So I am to take anything a character says as total truth… explain to me again why that rule doesn’t apply to Sylvanas?

Look up description of heroes and villains.

Mekkatorque’s gone a long way for someone whose goal isn’t to stay alive… Plus anyone who ran away from a fight, so that’s been everyone at some point.

Yeah after that vision she decided to do anything to stop death reaching her, using her people as meatshield ever since. And its not theory anymore its a fact, stated by her. Its not current - its confirmation of given theory players had before.

I was talking about when she recruited them. So, yeah then, you agree? Awesome.

And yet no one did. Say goodbye to Lordaeron and hello Gilneas for us. Yay.

Guess the Night Elves got solo’d by the forsaken then.

Yeah, I would like to know when not!

The entire of the first and second war seems like a decent place to start…

[Flickers-darkspear]

if this was in reply to mine it just kinda breaks the zone that they are just doing what they were doing before with no reaction to the battle that occurred or the fact that the rest of their race was evacuated.

[Coupedegrace-neptulon]

You realise immediately before this event is the Horde, United, at the broken shore. Then her ascension to Warchief, in the cinematic she seems pretty well supported so either you can disprove that or you are wrong.

Until Garrosh derailed and showed his face he also had so many sympathisers.

So if, hypothetically, I punched you directly in the face, then said, truce though? you think you would need to explain to me how I have wronged you?

No If your punch is coming from a reason in a very untimely situation I will hold grudge against you but wont have ground to stand because you had good reason to do so.

Because he calls for peace after stormheim having done nothing to smooth anything over. Of course it was going to fail, it was a pretty miserable effort.

She deserved it Stormheim and this is your headcannon right now.

Bringing Calia along seems a pretty poor effort to start building diplomatic bridges.

Thats not a phrase someone whos seeking peace, would say. And we discussed this before, as I recall.

Hah, so no refute then. So Gilneans did have something coming then.

Everyone has something coming. Sylvanas for one has her solitude coming right now.

No, you can’t. You entire point there is basically “this is the truth, then this part are lies! then that’s truth then that’s a lie” You are rejecting anything written that disagrees with your narrative.

Im not rejecting I can prove each opinions of Character to be right or wrong. So now get off my back with this nonsense.

Mekkatorque’s gone a long way for someone whose goal isn’t to stay alive

That is most unjust statement I have heard even for a Horde player to write.

Plus anyone who ran away from a fight, so that’s been everyone at some point.

I cant even comment on this…

The entire of the first and second war seems like a decent place to start…

Go read Good War please.

[Steabra-blackmoore]

You’re right. It makes no sense that they remained there.

[Kixen-stormscale]

Until Garrosh derailed and showed his face he also had so many sympathisers.

And like Garrosh, before controversy she had no problem calling for support. So I take it you finally take my point

No If your punch is coming from a reason in a very untimely situation I will hold grudge against you but wont have ground to stand because you had good reason to do so.

Either that’s a load of rubbish or you are not a self respecting person…

She deserved it Stormheim and this is your headcannon right now.

No, headcannon would be thinking that just because you think someone deserves something it excuses actions taken entirely. That’s headcannon

Thats not a phrase someone whos seeking peace, would say. And we discussed this before, as I recall.

We did, and as I recall we agreed that her being revealed was very damaging to any attempt at negotiations, so I am not real sure what you think this proves.

Everyone has something coming.

I doubt it. Alliance have had more characters revive from apparent death than killed. The Horde on the other hand… hah, well no revivals there outside of time traveling orcs

Im not rejecting I can prove each opinions of Character to be right or wrong. So now get off my back with this nonsense.

No you can’t. The quote this originally pertains to was when she said she and her first forsaken used to be loyal Alliance citizens (true) that they died for that banner (fighting the scourge, so also true) and their reward was to be hunted as vermin (look at the classic quest zones in that area, so also true). I then cited a pristine example of how Rogers and Genn explicitly state they are hunting her down.

ever since they you’ve just been saying she believes her words to be true but they are lies. How about you try proving something here. Until then, while I detest the word, surely this is the clearest example of “headcannon” of all time…

That is most unjust statement I have heard even for a Horde player to write.

Yeah, well, maybe you shouldn’t make sure ridiculous statements then.

I cant even comment on this…

Hah, well let’s look at an example. Genn could have not run from the blight in the siege of Lordaeron, there were horde with masks on in it after all. Since he values self preservation he ran. Not really uncommon, in fact we should expect everyone has such thoughts. It’s probably not unfair to say for the Alliance, this is a war for survival. The Horde killed not only them but citizens. from Alliance PoV it’s definitely about the safety of their people as a primary reason.

Ergo the statement “No other major characters goal is to stay alive.” is absolute nonsense.

Go read Good War please.

Listen to the Saurfang and Garrosh conversation in Borean Tundra.

[Coupedegrace-neptulon]

And like Garrosh, before controversy she had no problem calling for support. So I take it you finally take my point

You missing the point.

Either that’s a load of rubbish or you are not a self respecting person…

I respect myself, thank you very much. You know what I mean by that. When you know you have messed up and get hit by it, there is no disrespect owning to our own actions.

That’s headcannon

Headcannon is when there is no information given from source and you put your own ideas into something, which you just did.

We did,

Dont “We” Sylvanas please.

I doubt it. Alliance have had more characters revive from apparent death than killed. The Horde on the other hand… hah, well no revivals there outside of time traveling orcs

Take it with pinch of Salt.

No you can’t.

This is getting boring. If you dont want to hear my side, then move on.

her first forsaken used to be loyal Alliance citizens (true) that they died for that banner (fighting the scourge, so also true) and their reward was to be hunted as vermin (look at the classic quest zones in that area, so also true).

Again, you are living in past like Sylvanas. Different times Different people and Anduin has been trying to fix this.

Yeah, well, maybe you shouldn’t make sure ridiculous statements then.

/facepalm. Maybe its ridiculous, because you do not understand it or cannot understand it. For some reason I know which one it is.

Hah, well let’s look at an example.

So you truly believe that everyone has same goal of self surviving as Sylvanas? That they will do anything to stay alive?

Listen to the Saurfang and Garrosh conversation in Borean Tundra.

I dont need to, there is most recent novel that proves their moral actions of 1st and 2nd war. From Saurfang actually.

[Kixen-stormscale]

You missing the point.

No, that is entirely the point man… what the heck else do you think we have been talking about?

I respect myself, thank you very much. You know what I mean by that. When you know you have messed up and get hit by it, there is no disrespect owning to our own actions.

Allowing someone to deck you over something that happened years ago where an undersanding had been reached and only reacting with “oh well, i guess that was my bad” is not self respect.

Headcannon is when there is no information given from source and you put your own ideas into something, which you just did.

Hmm, yeah, no, yeah, no…

Dont “We” Sylvanas please.

picky picky picky

This is getting boring. If you dont want to hear my side, then move on.

I am just waiting for you to elaborate using logic instead of bias.

Again, you are living in past like Sylvanas. Different times Different people and Anduin has been trying to fix this.

Since the point raised was about the past… Yeah, obviously.

Maybe its ridiculous

Maybe? There’s actually doubt in your mind about that? wowza.

So you truly believe that everyone has same goal of self surviving as Sylvanas? That they will do anything to stay alive?

Nice try but that’s not what you said is it? I even expressly asked if that’s really what you meant but you were the one who persisted.

I dont need to, there is most recent novel that proves their moral actions of 1st and 2nd war. From Saurfang actually.

Game > Book

[Coupedegrace-neptulon]

No, that is entirely the point man… what the heck else do you think we have been talking about?

Yeah point is, as soon as they revealed their true nature and relationship with rest of the Horde races they were rejected. If Horde is family who takes care of each other then these members have disgraced Horde and they have gotten their deserved response. Respect is earned not given in Warchief titles.

undersanding

Never have been reached. If you mean Crowley trading his daughter to fight another day you are being delusional.

I am just waiting for you to elaborate using logic instead of bias.

Alright…

Sylvanas own thoughts goes like this:

“I believe the exiles of Gilneas will never forgive the Horde for driving them away.

Which is true. Not Horde but, Garrosh and Sylvanas drew them from their home and as long as they are alive and live to remember that day Gilneas will be disputed and know we will come for it one day slaughter every forsaken that has defiled the land with their filth!

I believe the living humans of Lordaeron think it is blasphemy that my people still hold their city.

Major human kingdom - Stormwind, its king Anduin Wrynn’s first intentions on his rule to end the hatred cycle between two races. Her witnessing it with her own eyes how her people and Humans have shown the will to put their differences aside. And her words exactly to that particular event was that there cannot be hope in her peoples hearts, she will not allow it.

I believe the ancient divide between our allies in Silvermoon and their kin in Darnassus is not easily mended

Not easily mended. But Kaldorei, especially Malfurion talking to Lorash before his death about how Kaldorei and Sin’dorei have no cause to fight and go to war.

I believe the Darkspear tribe hasn’t forgotten who drove them from their islands,

So many forces. Happening long ago and since then there has been so many interactions between two races, she discards everything to fuel Saurfangs rage.

I believe every orc your age remembers being imprisoned for years in filthy camps, wallowing in despair and surviving on human scraps.

Yet shown from Thralls Horde that whole race needed redemption, because what had Legion done to them. Orcs and Humans finding common ground over the years. Wrathgate, Legion, Varian and Thrall, Thrall and Jaina.

We are not so different when we fight for same cause you see and we have faced so many troubles united.

I believe every human remembers the tales of the terrible Horde that caused so much destruction in its first invasion, and I believe they blame every orc for that, no matter what your people have done to redeem yourselves.

Varian, Jaina, Anduin, Tirion, Kedgar all the prominent human characters who have truly got to know orcs have at least one orc “friend”. So I dont buy that.

If you could give me 5 alive humans that might prove her right I’d love to hear.

We died for that banner, and our reward was to be hunted as vermin

Discussed already .

I believe that there will be no permanent peace with the Alliance—not unless we win it on the battlefield on our terms

By subjugate them under Horde, so much for peace. And it appeared thats not even the actual goal if she has to she will burn us on stake.

If thats the Horde you like then you do belong to Forsaken ranks.

Since the point raised was about the past… Yeah, obviously.

Thats why its not relevant… In classic the Scourge was still big thing, knowing what it did to Human Kingdoms, there was big mistrust between two races, but TIME HAS GONE BY and people are adapting, thats why I say she does not change.

Maybe? There’s actually doubt in your mind about that? wowza.

Stop playing Mind games with me, not working… Go get some lessons from the Dark Lady.

Nice try but that’s not what you said is it? I even expressly asked if that’s really what you meant but you were the one who persisted.

Was it so? Sincerely, dont remember.

Game > Book

No, not really. Especially given the chronological order of it.

[Erevien-die-aldor]

No, not really. Especially given the chronological order of it.

Nobody reads the books and blizzard loves retcons. So no, not books.

By subjugate them under Horde, so much for peace. And it appeared thats not even the actual goal if she has to she will burn us on stake.

If thats the Horde you like then you do belong to Forsaken ranks.

Better this way than the Baine cow path of fruitless appeasement.

If you could give me 5 alive humans that might prove her right I’d love to hear.

Genn, Turalyon, Danath, all of the Crowley family, Rogers, Tandred and Katherine, all of Stromgarde survivors who still see hunting trolls as a sport.

We are not so different when we fight for same cause you see and we have faced so many troubles united.

I don’t think so.

Not easily mended. But Kaldorei, especially Malfurion talking to Lorash before his death about how Kaldorei and Sin’dorei have no cause to fight and go to war.

Author admitted on Twitter that he forgot about Kaldorei invading the ghostlands by mistake. Redshirt guy remembered him of it.

Gilneas will be disputed and know we will come for it one day slaughter every forsaken that has defiled the land with their filth!

You want to wipe out one race, then you have to go through to the entire horde first. We do not throw people under the bus for appeasement.

[Lukas-argent-dawn]

You want to wipe out one race, then you have to go through to the entire horde first. We do not throw people under the bus for appeasement

Lor’themar was going to side with the Alliance over Garrosh. Just putting it out there since it seems to be forgotten a lot.

There won’t be much Horde left to go through at this stage. Other than the Sylvanas cheer-leading squad there’s really only Geya’rah openly supporting her, which is only further confirmation that Exarch Garrosh Hellscream is the embodiment of purity and righteousness and I will praise the day he crashes out of the sky in a blaze of holy glory to decapitate Sylvanas.

[Erevien-die-aldor]

Lor’themar was going to side with the Alliance over Garrosh. Just putting it out there since it seems to be forgotten a lot.

Lor’themar gave himself up. That’s not the same as surrendering one of your allies to the enemy for no other reason but appeasement.

which is only further confirmation that Exarch Garrosh Hellscream is the embodiment of purity and righteousness and I will praise the day he crashes out of the sky in a blaze of holy glory to decapitate Sylvanas.

Hard headcanon.

[Lukas-argent-dawn]

Hard headcanon.

Headcanon or Bestcanon?

[Artein-argent-dawn]

Burning Teldrassil?
An affront to the nature, planted by the servant of Ragnaros (which in turn worked for N’zoth) out of his own hubris.
This tree that was corrupted by the Nightmare?
You want to repay us? You can start with a simple “Thank you.”

[Steabra-blackmoore]

This tree was planted before Fandral was corrupted by the emerald Nightmare. The tree wasn’t corrupted anymore too since wow Alexstarza and Ysera blessed it again.

[Hachak-argent-dawn]

Let it not be repaid. I dunno.

Or let it contribute further into teaching Anduin that decisive action - perhaps taking the first one - is often better than just twiddling your thumbs and hoping for the best. This includes his cause for peace.

Given up on him constantly saying how all the world’s problems is all his fault or whatever.

[Zarao-colinas-pardas]

This tree was planted before Fandral was corrupted by the emerald Nightmare.

Chronicles explicitly says that it was Fandral the one who planted it. And the purpose of it, was already one about serving the Old Gods.

[Coupedegrace-neptulon]

Nobody reads the books and blizzard loves retcons. So no, not books

Its sad, sad days when Blizzard makes books mandatory to understand the lore of game. But its like that.

Better this way than the Baine cow path of fruitless appeasement.

Better Baine then Vengence driven wailing wench.

Author admitted on Twitter that he forgot about Kaldorei invading the ghostlands by mistake. Redshirt guy remembered him of it

About that spesific fact? If you would be so kind and share that twit with us, alongside the red shirt guys reminder.

You want to wipe out one race, then you have to go through to the entire horde first. We do not throw people under the bus for appeasement.

At this point I would not mind getting my daggers bit dirty with Horde blood!

[Cipmt-veknilash]

Author admitted on Twitter that he forgot about Kaldorei invading the ghostlands by mistake. Redshirt guy remembered him of it.

Do you (and with you I mean all of us) realize that we are bashing here each other on lore that Blizzard don’t know and don’t care? Instead of uniting our voices to ask for better content.

[Hachak-argent-dawn]

It’s less about caring content about some people now.

And more about how far you can push people’s buttons.