What would cause you to consider teldrassil repayed?

[Kixen-stormscale]

Did you just really post this, knowing what was about to come?

Garrosh and Sylvanas great examples of Horde removing the cancer from their ranks.

Sylvanas hasn’t been removed yet and again, this was before any of her controversial actions, so your argument doesn’t have any foundation.

No it was not!

You’re argument is; it’s not a trigger point if someone attacks you but Genn sure won’t shut up about it.

Plus I am fairly sure if someone decked me I’d hold it against them so… Yeah, it really was.

Do not put expectations of people. No one ever will act same way you expect them to. Try to do your best in showing their mistakes.

Sounds like you are putting expectations on the horde side though. So how is that not a double standard?

m not, but its simple to get sonething in long term you have to practice it in short term. Its a habit and habit cements with consistency!

If you ignore a problem that same problem is liable to grow until it can swallow you whole. Didn’t you read “There’s no such thing as a dragon” as a kid? It’s a metaphor for what happens when you ignore a problem or something inconvenient.

But then again Crowley is not Greymane. And the act was actual agression and occupation. No act of submission will quench that feeling. I know it from personal experience!

Right, except now it just looks like Gilnean’s can’t honor their word. The bulk of their forces were spared under this condition.

With all my fleeting and passionate human heart!

Then Gilnean’s deserve to lose their homes for abandoning Lordaeron during the events of War3.

There has been so much going on, since post Cata people and soldiers of factions bonding due to world threats.

And yet if each faction does owe something to each other Anduin is ready to put that differences on side and live in peace. Which apparently forsaken want to!

That’s fair. It’s also fair to point out that dropping out of the sky and bombing the forsaken fleet is decidedly not in keeping with this at all.

Book is not lying, it portrays how Sylvanas views todays relation of both Faction, with is deranged and not true!

And this being total lie, Sylvanas’ projections and hatred.

Not Sylvanas lying, its a lie in lore, its not true! Sylvanas does believe in her words

So, let me get this straight. According to you; The book isn’t wrong. Sylvanas’ isn’t lying. But she’s wrong, only in this specific part of what she is saying, everything else in this entire conversation is correct/accurate(?)

That’s pretty much the definition of confirmation bias.

Genn for another example! And yet again politics are run by governors. And their people have also shown they are ready for change. Arathi is good example!

Absolutely not. Genn was the one barking that she ‘desecrated Lordaeron with her flith’ (paraphrasing). There’s no way you can claim that Genn is totally in favour of Forsaken ownership of Lordaeron without hard evidence of which I have never seen any. Which confirms what I am saying, Even Anduin’s right hand man doesn’t think the way Anduin does.

Thus making sure she does everything to stsy alive!

Pretty sure that’s one of, if not the main goal of a lot of characters…

In any case after that when introducing the Val’kyr she described them as the future of the Forsaken, so no, she’s been thinking about the longevity of the forsaken too.

I have a feeling you do not have any other arguement other than that.

That’s because it’s a good arguement you haven’t been able to refute so, yeah. I’ll keep using it until then.

No there were not. And they do expect each other the way they are, until they hurt each other. Theres one saying I like “Your freedom ends, where mine starts” and recently Horde has been f@cking over that saying thats why you have this dispute todsy.

Another thing, these misfits and outcasts (a.k.a Horde) have had time to establish some sort of relationship with their “enemies” understanding they are not that different in values, fought and died togather for same cause. Yet Sylvanas wants to take it and shatter all of this build understanding and respect.

I like that quote, it’s pretty applicable to the horde I feel.

Well depends on your perspective. According to the book quote you linked she is allegedly doing this for a permanent peace. Or you could say that she is not the only one set on war. Jaina for instance. We won’t know until later I suppose.

[Coupedegrace-neptulon]

Sylvanas hasn’t been removed yet and again, this was before any of her controversial actions, so your argument doesn’t have any foundation.

She is on the path of rebellion and that was the point of argument. "Horde sticks together

You’re argument is;

My Argument is that Stormheim is not trigger point. The Gilneas Forsaken relationship is.

Sounds like you are putting expectations on the horde side though.

Not really. Its what you want to see. In this case Horde has something that requires addressing not Alliance. Alliance also has the same things to dispute with Horde that Horde do not /cannot seem to acknowledge.

If you ignore a problem that same problem is liable to grow until it can swallow you whole.

Thats why you need to work on short term peace rather then long term straight away.

. Didn’t you read “There’s no such thing as a dragon” as a kid? I

Different people, different cultures.

The bulk of their forces were spared under this condition.

Sure, thing hail to the Dark Lady!

Then Gilnean’s deserve to lose their homes for abandoning Lordaeron during the events of War3.

So it would have been right thing to do to fight and die alongside Lordaeron. Taking in account given Human Kingdom relationship back then.

It’s also fair to point out that dropping out of the sky and bombing the forsaken fleet is decidedly not in keeping with this at all.

She deserved it. And from this point on every time you bring this up you will get same answer.

The book isn’t wrong. Sylvanas’ isn’t lying. But she’s wrong, only in this specific part of what she is saying, everything else in this entire conversation is correct/accurate(?)

No what Im saying the novel portrays Sylvanas’s opinion and they are deranged and not True. All of them. She has outdated opinion and she only mangoes to point out Gilneas will never forgive their loss.

Its not bias, if I can back them up from the sources of novels and books, which I have offered you twice already and you kept ignoring them. So next time be kind and read whole thing and take in consideration why someone is saying something. Its not the first time you are doing this.

Genn was the one barking that she ‘desecrated Lordaeron with her flith’ (paraphrasing).

This was done after the war has started and Teldressil burnt, Sylvanas has commit the monstrosities.

Which confirms what I am saying, Even Anduin’s right hand man doesn’t think the way Anduin does.

Totally wrong! Have you read BtS, I also have mentioned it couple of times, which you have ignored and I have to return to it 3rd time already and honestly makes the discussion kinda tiring.

Genn agrees with Anduin that Forsaken are not abominations as he thought before and there is a chance for Humans and Human to live togather. And this change happened from the very 1st meeting.It is stated and cemented and whatever you say cannot change that. He wants Sylvanas’ head, we all do !

Pretty sure that’s one of, if not the main goal of a lot of characters…

Absolutely not! No other major characters goal is to stay alive. Great example is one of your one - Saurfang and Baine, Zelling and Lor’themar, basically all Horde leaders have bigger goals then staying alive.

In any case after that when introducing the Val’kyr she described them as the future of the Forsaken, so no, she’s been thinking about the longevity of the forsaken too.

To use them in her cause to stay alive. You cant be that ignorant when she calls her people “Arrows in her Quiver” or for them to have no Hope. What kind of leader who has good intentions for their people does this kind of Tyrannic and selfish goals.

That’s because it’s a good arguement you haven’t been able to refute so, yeah. I’ll keep using it until then.

No its an argument that goes way back to why it happened. And I have said twice that it was wrong for Genn to attack her, but she deserved it. There was a cause and reasoning behind it.

According to the book quote you linked she is allegedly doing this for a permanent peace

Thus alienating herself to the rest of the Horde races. The morality always mattered in Horde, which she does not have.

Or you could say that she is not the only one set on war.

She is the only one standing for this war.

Zandalari have the biggest reason to fight Alliance at this moment. This is a great reason to fight.

Jaina for instance. We won’t know until later I suppose.

Kill her off, if you want her! She’s yours.

[Kixen-stormscale]

She is on the path of rebellion and that was the point of argument. "Horde sticks together

The point you made was no one would come and help her if she was attacked. At the point in time you are talking about that is not true at all.

My Argument is that Stormheim is not trigger point. The Gilneas Forsaken relationship is.

You’re claiming that battles from 4 years ago, that were ended with a bargain/understanding are more relevant to the current conflict than ones from a few months ago that were never settled. You’re claiming the evidence is in that Stormheim isn’t brought up but Gilneans is. Since Genn has never stopped talking about it and Sylvanas has always kept things close to her chest I think that’s all pretty faulty logic.

Its what you want to see. In this case Horde has something that requires addressing not Alliance. Alliance also has the same things to dispute with Horde that Horde do not /cannot seem to acknowledge.

Isn’t this tantamount to slapping someone and saying that it’s their problem because they have something that requires addressing not you. Well, no, turns out they can just burn down your home. The Horde Is addressing this in it’s own way. What do you really think Sylvanas meant by “you call for peace when it suits you little lion”

Also it’s pretty funny accusing horde of no being able to acknowledge something given the main point of this disagreement.

Thats why you need to work on short term peace rather then long term straight away.

As I see it you need to remove obstacles that would collapse peace in the long term. Build a foundation for lasting peace.

If you rush to create a peace that collapses it just makes creating another peace harder as both now have more reasons not to trust in it and have reason to believe the new peace will fail, thus a cycle is born.

So it would have been right thing to do to fight and die alongside Lordaeron.

Not sure. Pretty sure morally speaking the building of a wall and denying any help though was pretty bad.

She deserved it

That’s a moral argument from your perspective. It doesnt mean anyone can do whatever they want. If everyone got what everyone deserved they really wouldn’t be many left at all.

No what Im saying the novel portrays Sylvanas’s opinion and they are deranged and not True. All of them. She has outdated opinion

In your opinion. Which apparently was formed by deciding that, even from the same source, a book was telling the truth and lying alternately. Like I said that is literally the definition of confirmation bias.

Genn agrees with Anduin that Forsaken are not abominations as he thought before

I think I have yet to see him ever show this to any extent. I am sceptical to believe this due to his history. When he shows it then fine, absolutely. Before then? You expect me to think someone as stubborn as Genn really has 180’d his opinion because of one instance? Not until I see it.

No other major characters goal is to stay alive.

Surely that’s not a hill you are prepared to die on?

To use them in her cause to stay alive. You cant be that ignorant when she calls her people “Arrows in her Quiver” or for them to have no Hope. What kind of leader who has good intentions for their people does this kind of Tyrannic and selfish goals

Except that’s not at all why she actually recruited them. You are applying the current going theory to back in Cata. We know she recruited them to save the forsaken because of the vision she had when she tried to suicide.

No its an argument that goes way back to why it happened. And I have said twice that it was wrong for Genn to attack her, but she deserved it. There was a cause and reasoning behind it.

Just because there was a cause, and that you think it was deserved doesn’t change the fact that if you attack someone, their allies will support retribution.

The morality always mattered in Horde, which she does not have.

Well… not really… but okay.

She is the only one standing for this war.

Didn’t Jaina abandon the world to the Legion because people wanted to work together and only came back to fight the horde?

And let’s not forget Genn, he attacks the horde even when that’s against his orders…

[Minairia-argent-dawn (Minairia)]

Can I point out here, something regarding Sylvanas and Xal’alath.

It appears Sylvanas will be “opening the way” to Nazjatar, with the blade in 8.2. Now, what does this mean? Well, we know the Nightborne are going to be playing a role in this…is it possible that Thalyssra, Sylvanas and Xal’alath are leading the Horde effort in the Ruins of Zin-Azshari…?

I have to say, I’m not keen on Sylvanas - but that sort of story where we see more Nightborne and Forsaken interact is quite interesting.

[Coupedegrace-neptulon]

The point you made was no one would come and help her if she was attacked. At the point in time you are talking about that is not true at all.

Absolutely not. Thats you interpretation. This is answer to your “Horde stcks together”, no they dont and rightfully so.

You’re claiming that battles from 4 years ago, that were ended with a bargain/understanding are more relevant to the current conflict than ones from a few months ago that were never settled

Yes.

understanding

LOL

Isn’t this tantamount to slapping someone and saying that it’s their problem because they have something that requires addressing not you.

Take it as you want, but thats the case. Alliance wont/might not recognise their mistakes same as Horde. Thats why there are negotiations and discussions that lead to compromises and understanding. But it seems its impossible to have common ground with Sylvanas.

What do you really think Sylvanas meant by “ you call for peace when it suits you little lion ”

Why is that ?

As I see it you need to remove obstacles that would collapse peace in the long term. Build a foundation for lasting peace.

Thats exactly what I mean. To give some ground to build it up and start talks and diplomatic delegations exchanged between two factions. Which Sylvanas seemed to have stomped out in Arathi.

Not sure. Pretty sure morally speaking the building of a wall and denying any help though was pretty bad.

Says a Hordie, whos two prominent race have done the same thing for ages. Preservation is important.

If everyone got what everyone deserved they really wouldn’t be many left at all.

True, only few manage that, without serious consequences, that makes them stand out! Sylvanas as well managed it - standing out with her amoral and disloyal ways.

In your opinion.

I can prove my opinion with sources and opinions from other Chracters on all of the things Sylvanas said showcasing why they are wrong and right, unlike you just throwing Bias bullcr@p at my face.

I think I have yet to see him ever show this to any extent. I am sceptical to believe this due to his history. When he shows it then fine, absolutely. Before then? You expect me to think someone as stubborn as Genn really has 180’d his opinion because of one instance? Not until I see it.

You dont need showing. Its stated in the book, you just have to read it.

Surely that’s not a hill you are prepared to die on?

Look up description of heroes and villains.

We know she recruited them to save the forsaken because of the vision she had when she tried to suicide.

Yeah after that vision she decided to do anything to stop death reaching her, using her people as meatshield ever since. And its not theory anymore its a fact, stated by her. Its not current - its confirmation of given theory players had before.

their allies will support retribution.

And yet no one did. Say goodbye to Lordaeron and hello Gilneas for us. Yay.

Well… not really… but okay.

Yeah, I would like to know when not!

Didn’t Jaina abandon the world to the Legion because people wanted to work together and only came back to fight the horde?

Yes.

And let’s not forget Genn, he attacks the horde even when that’s against his orders…

Yes.

Sylvanas is still alone standing in this war… So yeah…

It appears Sylvanas will be “opening the way” to Nazjatar, with the blade in 8.2. Now, what does this mean? Well, we know the Nightborne are going to be playing a role in this…is it possible that Thalyssra, Sylvanas and Xal’alath are leading the Horde effort in the Ruins of Zin-Azshari…?

Sylvanas standing on the deck of Swift Vengeance near Zin-Azshari raising Xal’atath high in the air.

Betrayer… In truth it was I who was betrayed. Still I am hunted, still I am hated. Now my dead eyes see that others cannot, that sometimes the hand of fate must be forced…

Unleash the tides of doom, upon on all those, who would appose us!

[Flickers-darkspear]

repayment for me would be Tirisfal having all the Forsaken npc’s removed from the BFA version of the zone or having the remaining Forsaken forces fighting with the Worgen from Silverpines not just doing what they were doing before the Alliance carved a giant scar up the middle of the zone … but i guess this was just laziness on the part of Blizzard

[Steabra-blackmoore]

What have the NPCs done to you that you want repayment?

[Kixen-stormscale]

Absolutely not. Thats you interpretation. This is answer to your “Horde stcks together”, no they dont and rightfully so.

You realise immediately before this event is the Horde, United, at the broken shore. Then her ascension to Warchief, in the cinematic she seems pretty well supported so either you can disprove that or you are wrong.

Yes.

No.

Take it as you want, but thats the case.

So if, hypothetically, I punched you directly in the face, then said, truce though? you think you would need to explain to me how I have wronged you? That’s basically what you are saying the horde ought to have done.

Why is that ?

Because he calls for peace after stormheim having done nothing to smooth anything over. Of course it was going to fail, it was a pretty miserable effort.

Thats exactly what I mean. To give some ground to build it up and start talks and diplomatic delegations exchanged between two factions. Which Sylvanas seemed to have stomped out in Arathi.

Bringing Calia along seems a pretty poor effort to start building diplomatic bridges.

Says a Hordie, whos two prominent race have done the same thing for ages. Preservation is important.

Hah, so no refute then. So Gilneans did have something coming then.

I can prove my opinion with sources and opinions from other Chracters on all of the things Sylvanas said showcasing why they are wrong and right, unlike you just throwing Bias bullcr@p at my face.

No, you can’t. You entire point there is basically “this is the truth, then this part are lies! then that’s truth then that’s a lie” You are rejecting anything written that disagrees with your narrative. Like I said, the literal definition of confirmation bias.

You dont need showing. Its stated in the book, you just have to read it.

So I am to take anything a character says as total truth… explain to me again why that rule doesn’t apply to Sylvanas?

Look up description of heroes and villains.

Mekkatorque’s gone a long way for someone whose goal isn’t to stay alive… Plus anyone who ran away from a fight, so that’s been everyone at some point.

Yeah after that vision she decided to do anything to stop death reaching her, using her people as meatshield ever since. And its not theory anymore its a fact, stated by her. Its not current - its confirmation of given theory players had before.

I was talking about when she recruited them. So, yeah then, you agree? Awesome.

And yet no one did. Say goodbye to Lordaeron and hello Gilneas for us. Yay.

Guess the Night Elves got solo’d by the forsaken then.

Yeah, I would like to know when not!

The entire of the first and second war seems like a decent place to start…

[Flickers-darkspear]

if this was in reply to mine it just kinda breaks the zone that they are just doing what they were doing before with no reaction to the battle that occurred or the fact that the rest of their race was evacuated.

[Coupedegrace-neptulon]

You realise immediately before this event is the Horde, United, at the broken shore. Then her ascension to Warchief, in the cinematic she seems pretty well supported so either you can disprove that or you are wrong.

Until Garrosh derailed and showed his face he also had so many sympathisers.

So if, hypothetically, I punched you directly in the face, then said, truce though? you think you would need to explain to me how I have wronged you?

No If your punch is coming from a reason in a very untimely situation I will hold grudge against you but wont have ground to stand because you had good reason to do so.

Because he calls for peace after stormheim having done nothing to smooth anything over. Of course it was going to fail, it was a pretty miserable effort.

She deserved it Stormheim and this is your headcannon right now.

Bringing Calia along seems a pretty poor effort to start building diplomatic bridges.

Thats not a phrase someone whos seeking peace, would say. And we discussed this before, as I recall.

Hah, so no refute then. So Gilneans did have something coming then.

Everyone has something coming. Sylvanas for one has her solitude coming right now.

No, you can’t. You entire point there is basically “this is the truth, then this part are lies! then that’s truth then that’s a lie” You are rejecting anything written that disagrees with your narrative.

Im not rejecting I can prove each opinions of Character to be right or wrong. So now get off my back with this nonsense.

Mekkatorque’s gone a long way for someone whose goal isn’t to stay alive

That is most unjust statement I have heard even for a Horde player to write.

Plus anyone who ran away from a fight, so that’s been everyone at some point.

I cant even comment on this…

The entire of the first and second war seems like a decent place to start…

Go read Good War please.

[Steabra-blackmoore]

You’re right. It makes no sense that they remained there.

[Kixen-stormscale]

Until Garrosh derailed and showed his face he also had so many sympathisers.

And like Garrosh, before controversy she had no problem calling for support. So I take it you finally take my point

No If your punch is coming from a reason in a very untimely situation I will hold grudge against you but wont have ground to stand because you had good reason to do so.

Either that’s a load of rubbish or you are not a self respecting person…

She deserved it Stormheim and this is your headcannon right now.

No, headcannon would be thinking that just because you think someone deserves something it excuses actions taken entirely. That’s headcannon

Thats not a phrase someone whos seeking peace, would say. And we discussed this before, as I recall.

We did, and as I recall we agreed that her being revealed was very damaging to any attempt at negotiations, so I am not real sure what you think this proves.

Everyone has something coming.

I doubt it. Alliance have had more characters revive from apparent death than killed. The Horde on the other hand… hah, well no revivals there outside of time traveling orcs

Im not rejecting I can prove each opinions of Character to be right or wrong. So now get off my back with this nonsense.

No you can’t. The quote this originally pertains to was when she said she and her first forsaken used to be loyal Alliance citizens (true) that they died for that banner (fighting the scourge, so also true) and their reward was to be hunted as vermin (look at the classic quest zones in that area, so also true). I then cited a pristine example of how Rogers and Genn explicitly state they are hunting her down.

ever since they you’ve just been saying she believes her words to be true but they are lies. How about you try proving something here. Until then, while I detest the word, surely this is the clearest example of “headcannon” of all time…

That is most unjust statement I have heard even for a Horde player to write.

Yeah, well, maybe you shouldn’t make sure ridiculous statements then.

I cant even comment on this…

Hah, well let’s look at an example. Genn could have not run from the blight in the siege of Lordaeron, there were horde with masks on in it after all. Since he values self preservation he ran. Not really uncommon, in fact we should expect everyone has such thoughts. It’s probably not unfair to say for the Alliance, this is a war for survival. The Horde killed not only them but citizens. from Alliance PoV it’s definitely about the safety of their people as a primary reason.

Ergo the statement “No other major characters goal is to stay alive.” is absolute nonsense.

Go read Good War please.

Listen to the Saurfang and Garrosh conversation in Borean Tundra.

[Coupedegrace-neptulon]

And like Garrosh, before controversy she had no problem calling for support. So I take it you finally take my point

You missing the point.

Either that’s a load of rubbish or you are not a self respecting person…

I respect myself, thank you very much. You know what I mean by that. When you know you have messed up and get hit by it, there is no disrespect owning to our own actions.

That’s headcannon

Headcannon is when there is no information given from source and you put your own ideas into something, which you just did.

We did,

Dont “We” Sylvanas please.

I doubt it. Alliance have had more characters revive from apparent death than killed. The Horde on the other hand… hah, well no revivals there outside of time traveling orcs

Take it with pinch of Salt.

No you can’t.

This is getting boring. If you dont want to hear my side, then move on.

her first forsaken used to be loyal Alliance citizens (true) that they died for that banner (fighting the scourge, so also true) and their reward was to be hunted as vermin (look at the classic quest zones in that area, so also true).

Again, you are living in past like Sylvanas. Different times Different people and Anduin has been trying to fix this.

Yeah, well, maybe you shouldn’t make sure ridiculous statements then.

/facepalm. Maybe its ridiculous, because you do not understand it or cannot understand it. For some reason I know which one it is.

Hah, well let’s look at an example.

So you truly believe that everyone has same goal of self surviving as Sylvanas? That they will do anything to stay alive?

Listen to the Saurfang and Garrosh conversation in Borean Tundra.

I dont need to, there is most recent novel that proves their moral actions of 1st and 2nd war. From Saurfang actually.

[Kixen-stormscale]

You missing the point.

No, that is entirely the point man… what the heck else do you think we have been talking about?

I respect myself, thank you very much. You know what I mean by that. When you know you have messed up and get hit by it, there is no disrespect owning to our own actions.

Allowing someone to deck you over something that happened years ago where an undersanding had been reached and only reacting with “oh well, i guess that was my bad” is not self respect.

Headcannon is when there is no information given from source and you put your own ideas into something, which you just did.

Hmm, yeah, no, yeah, no…

Dont “We” Sylvanas please.

picky picky picky

This is getting boring. If you dont want to hear my side, then move on.

I am just waiting for you to elaborate using logic instead of bias.

Again, you are living in past like Sylvanas. Different times Different people and Anduin has been trying to fix this.

Since the point raised was about the past… Yeah, obviously.

Maybe its ridiculous

Maybe? There’s actually doubt in your mind about that? wowza.

So you truly believe that everyone has same goal of self surviving as Sylvanas? That they will do anything to stay alive?

Nice try but that’s not what you said is it? I even expressly asked if that’s really what you meant but you were the one who persisted.

I dont need to, there is most recent novel that proves their moral actions of 1st and 2nd war. From Saurfang actually.

Game > Book

[Coupedegrace-neptulon]

No, that is entirely the point man… what the heck else do you think we have been talking about?

Yeah point is, as soon as they revealed their true nature and relationship with rest of the Horde races they were rejected. If Horde is family who takes care of each other then these members have disgraced Horde and they have gotten their deserved response. Respect is earned not given in Warchief titles.

undersanding

Never have been reached. If you mean Crowley trading his daughter to fight another day you are being delusional.

I am just waiting for you to elaborate using logic instead of bias.

Alright…

Sylvanas own thoughts goes like this:

“I believe the exiles of Gilneas will never forgive the Horde for driving them away.

Which is true. Not Horde but, Garrosh and Sylvanas drew them from their home and as long as they are alive and live to remember that day Gilneas will be disputed and know we will come for it one day slaughter every forsaken that has defiled the land with their filth!

I believe the living humans of Lordaeron think it is blasphemy that my people still hold their city.

Major human kingdom - Stormwind, its king Anduin Wrynn’s first intentions on his rule to end the hatred cycle between two races. Her witnessing it with her own eyes how her people and Humans have shown the will to put their differences aside. And her words exactly to that particular event was that there cannot be hope in her peoples hearts, she will not allow it.

I believe the ancient divide between our allies in Silvermoon and their kin in Darnassus is not easily mended

Not easily mended. But Kaldorei, especially Malfurion talking to Lorash before his death about how Kaldorei and Sin’dorei have no cause to fight and go to war.

I believe the Darkspear tribe hasn’t forgotten who drove them from their islands,

So many forces. Happening long ago and since then there has been so many interactions between two races, she discards everything to fuel Saurfangs rage.

I believe every orc your age remembers being imprisoned for years in filthy camps, wallowing in despair and surviving on human scraps.

Yet shown from Thralls Horde that whole race needed redemption, because what had Legion done to them. Orcs and Humans finding common ground over the years. Wrathgate, Legion, Varian and Thrall, Thrall and Jaina.

We are not so different when we fight for same cause you see and we have faced so many troubles united.

I believe every human remembers the tales of the terrible Horde that caused so much destruction in its first invasion, and I believe they blame every orc for that, no matter what your people have done to redeem yourselves.

Varian, Jaina, Anduin, Tirion, Kedgar all the prominent human characters who have truly got to know orcs have at least one orc “friend”. So I dont buy that.

If you could give me 5 alive humans that might prove her right I’d love to hear.

We died for that banner, and our reward was to be hunted as vermin

Discussed already .

I believe that there will be no permanent peace with the Alliance—not unless we win it on the battlefield on our terms

By subjugate them under Horde, so much for peace. And it appeared thats not even the actual goal if she has to she will burn us on stake.

If thats the Horde you like then you do belong to Forsaken ranks.

Since the point raised was about the past… Yeah, obviously.

Thats why its not relevant… In classic the Scourge was still big thing, knowing what it did to Human Kingdoms, there was big mistrust between two races, but TIME HAS GONE BY and people are adapting, thats why I say she does not change.

Maybe? There’s actually doubt in your mind about that? wowza.

Stop playing Mind games with me, not working… Go get some lessons from the Dark Lady.

Nice try but that’s not what you said is it? I even expressly asked if that’s really what you meant but you were the one who persisted.

Was it so? Sincerely, dont remember.

Game > Book

No, not really. Especially given the chronological order of it.

[Erevien-die-aldor (Erevien)]

No, not really. Especially given the chronological order of it.

Nobody reads the books and blizzard loves retcons. So no, not books.

By subjugate them under Horde, so much for peace. And it appeared thats not even the actual goal if she has to she will burn us on stake.

If thats the Horde you like then you do belong to Forsaken ranks.

Better this way than the Baine cow path of fruitless appeasement.

If you could give me 5 alive humans that might prove her right I’d love to hear.

Genn, Turalyon, Danath, all of the Crowley family, Rogers, Tandred and Katherine, all of Stromgarde survivors who still see hunting trolls as a sport.

We are not so different when we fight for same cause you see and we have faced so many troubles united.

I don’t think so.

Not easily mended. But Kaldorei, especially Malfurion talking to Lorash before his death about how Kaldorei and Sin’dorei have no cause to fight and go to war.

Author admitted on Twitter that he forgot about Kaldorei invading the ghostlands by mistake. Redshirt guy remembered him of it.

Gilneas will be disputed and know we will come for it one day slaughter every forsaken that has defiled the land with their filth!

You want to wipe out one race, then you have to go through to the entire horde first. We do not throw people under the bus for appeasement.

[Lukas-argent-dawn-8166 (Lukas)]

You want to wipe out one race, then you have to go through to the entire horde first. We do not throw people under the bus for appeasement

Lor’themar was going to side with the Alliance over Garrosh. Just putting it out there since it seems to be forgotten a lot.

There won’t be much Horde left to go through at this stage. Other than the Sylvanas cheer-leading squad there’s really only Geya’rah openly supporting her, which is only further confirmation that Exarch Garrosh Hellscream is the embodiment of purity and righteousness and I will praise the day he crashes out of the sky in a blaze of holy glory to decapitate Sylvanas.

[Erevien-die-aldor (Erevien)]

Lor’themar was going to side with the Alliance over Garrosh. Just putting it out there since it seems to be forgotten a lot.

Lor’themar gave himself up. That’s not the same as surrendering one of your allies to the enemy for no other reason but appeasement.

which is only further confirmation that Exarch Garrosh Hellscream is the embodiment of purity and righteousness and I will praise the day he crashes out of the sky in a blaze of holy glory to decapitate Sylvanas.

Hard headcanon.

[Lukas-argent-dawn-8166 (Lukas)]

Hard headcanon.

Headcanon or Bestcanon?

[Artein-argent-dawn (Artein)]

Burning Teldrassil?
An affront to the nature, planted by the servant of Ragnaros (which in turn worked for N’zoth) out of his own hubris.
This tree that was corrupted by the Nightmare?
You want to repay us? You can start with a simple “Thank you.”