And no one is wondering what exactly she is doing in Stormheim?
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No doubt she is not bringing up Stormheim in fear of flashing her out,
Getting the Source of all Valkyr in order to stop the Forsaken from rotting away and dwindeling in numbers. So, basically, survival of the race she commands.
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So survival is worth enslaving others?
Tough position but yes. Itâs not like Odyn was of any use while being locked away in the Halls of Valor. All the other class orders did much more then the Valor shouting Valarjar and odyns Valkyr mindslaves.
âHeâs useless, so lets take his propertyâ
Extreme situations require extreme measures.
And Genns refusal to help lordaeron when invaded by the Blight is the reason for the forsaken jumping on the opportunity to invade Gilneas with glee.
Everything has a reason, but where does it stop to justify things?
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Until Gilneas stands in ruins and those Gilneans who lived to see that day still breath!
FOR GILNEAS!
Its often worth killing them.
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Is this true or is this based on assumption?
I know Varians initial refusal of letting the Worgen to join the Alliance was because of this, but then again the Forsaken should also have pretty big beef with the Blood Elves for doing what Gilneas did and locking themselves off only sending token forces to help.
and I am pretty sure Gilneas would have also fallen if they didnât hide behind the wall so (for me at least) given our meta knowledge they did the best thing.
The horde look after their own, if you attack one itâs a pretty good bet the others will come to their support. But yeah, again, Warchief.
Sure, just as soon as you stop denying it as a trigger point.
Admission of immediate/recent failing is probably the first step. Given this was skipped it was always going to fail.
If you focus on what is expedient then you will never achieve meaningful or lasting results.
Didnât Crowley strike a deal in exchange for Lornaâs safety for his, Gilneans, unconditional surrender? Something about leave and never return kinda thing?
Also, yeah, what Aethil said.
Is it something that you personally agree with as a blanket rule?
Well, thatâs clearly not true, but rather than get side-tracked Iâm not seeing how that relates to what I said there. I am just saying that if we take previous actions taken against various factions, the forsaken owe humans back Big Time, and due to post-cata hillsbrad, the alliance collectively too.
Reason or not, itâs undeniable so I will assume my point has been taken.
Poor choice of phrasing on my part. I am not saying that Sylvanas is lying but that the book is⌠well that the book is being inaccurate with what it is representing.
What I am saying is I donât think itâs a legitimate way of thinking to quote a book extract, take half of it as gospel and the other half dismiss out of hand because your perceive it to contradict other information. At the very least you canât expect me to accept that as a foundation of reasoning. It just comes off as only reading what you want to read.
Fair enough, but on what grounds am I to think such thinking has totally changed? Anduin does not think this way but he is almost inhumanely⌠nice. Itâs not reasonable to assume his mentality is shared by many, if any.
Yep, pretty much. Was much more satisfying when she did it to Varimathras and had him kill other dreadlords wasnât it? That said I think sheâs commonly misrepresented historically. She wasnât as bad before as she has been recently. Which is why this reeks of Garrosh 2.0 to me.
Except at the time she was attacked she had only just become warchief so no one was questioning her at all yet. So this point really isnât relevent at the time of this event.
Well maybe thatâs because every time it should come up it never does. I donât doubt that for folks who are alliance at heart there are points that you feel are valid that never get raised and that itâs not unique to horde but recently from the horde perspective this happens so god damn always. The narrativeâs they do push feel intentionally designed to be divisive and always making us question ourselves and/or each other.
Horde didnât always used to be like this. We used to be âthe dysfunctional familyâ, we had major differences but we accepted each other, as we were. We banded together because we needed to, we didnât spend our time plotting against each other and we never fraternised with enemies at the expense of our allies. We stood for doing right by each other, even the forsaken went out of their way for the blood elves in TBC. But now the only narrative that gets pushed is that factions hate each other and are as likely to turn on each other as band together.
Being a fangirl/boy shouldnât be a bad thing. Itâs great to love a character. I think the shame comes that the hatred between my racial leader and yours is so great that it bleeds into the community. Maybe thatâs not so bad between horde and alliance, you could argue that it feeds some team spirit and a desire to beat the other guy but for horde some, many even, would feel more sympathy for alliance point of view than their own. Sylvanas, Baine or otherwise. I really think thatâs the sign that the core is rotting.
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Forcible conversion of Nathanos into a Lightforged Forsaken and forced to kill Sylvanas, then to be locked up for eternity to understand the error of his ways.
All the Orcs back into camps, all Forsaken who do not take optional mandatory conversion in the Light are to be burnt at the stake.
Tauren and Trolls are put into carefully controlled and civilising reservations. Goblins are forced to pay tax or suffer Kul Tiran naval bombardment until acquiescence.
AtalâDazar is melted down to pay for the gold costs of the War. Blood Elves are offered Void conversion or extermination, unification of the Thalassian-brand of Elves under one banner is imperative. The Sunwell will be re-purposed into a Voidwell.
That should cover a proper -realistic- peace deal with the Horde.
You call Sylvanas evil yet want to enforce more possible void time bombs being created. Are you a secret agent of void lords or something?
No, you are.
Seize him for suggesting such awful things!
For real tho? This is literally an invetation for the VLs to win.
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Of course not, itâs punitive action for being on the losing side.
If you make the sunwell into a voidwell, you write a big fat invitation for the Voidlords to use it, and make yourself the losing side.
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Did you just really post this, knowing what was about to come?
Garrosh and Sylvanas great examples of Horde removing the cancer from their ranks.
No it was not!
Do not put expectations of people. No one ever will act same way you expect them to. Try to do your best in showing their mistakes.
Im not, but its simple to get sonething in long term you have to practice it in short term. Its a habit and habit cements with consistency!
I dont remember exactly, I will look that up. But then again Crowley is not Greymane. And the act was actual agression and occupation. No act of submission will quench that feeling. I know it from personal experience!
And I answered Aethil 
With all my fleeting and passionate human heart!
There has been so much going on, since post Cata people and soldiers of factions bonding due to world threats.
And yet if each faction does owe something to each other Anduin is ready to put that differences on side and live in peace. Which apparently forsaken want to!
Book is not lying, it portrays how Sylvanas views todays relation of both Faction, with is deranged and not true!
Its when books portrays the thought of character and not actually stating how the facts were. Difference!
Genn for another example! And yet again politics are run by governors. And their people have also shown they are ready for change. Arathi is good example!
Because she had a lurpose to âliveâ and a certain goal to achieve. That goal gone and she has no exact goal, shes undead and wont die for a fear of what awauts her beyond. Thus making sure she does everything to stsy alive!
I have a feeling you do not have any other arguement other than that.
No there were not. And they do expect each other the way they are, until they hurt each other. Theres one saying I like âYour freedom ends, where mine startsâ and recently Horde has been < snip > over that saying thats why you have this dispute todsy.
Another thing, these misfits and outcasts (a.k.a Horde) have had time to establish some sort of relationship with their âenemiesâ understanding they are not that different in values, fought and died togather for same cause. Yet Sylvanas wants to take it and shatter all of this build understanding and respect.
Agreed, but imo, these fanboys and fangirls do jot go in extent to realise their own mistakes (meaning faction) amd thus going to project on one thing and justify things with one insident that are way harsh in comparison!
Todays story I do not have any reason to beat up Horde, except Forsaken and to avenge Teldrassil! And from Horde perspective I would not want to hit Alliance!
Necause both factions are brought to utter sonsense of state. After all this writing both faction have grown so close to peace and all of sudden Sylvanas jumps and starts war, war of genocide and absolute dominance! No wonder she get so much hate from both factions.
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Perhaps we deserve to lose.