Is there any purpose/benefit to the system of honor rank milestones that prevent you from progressing up ranks over a longer number of weeks?
I can see a lot of downsides to the current system, but I’m interested to know if there are any upsides?
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Its a bit stoopid coz you end up reaching cap by Saturday and there’s no incentive to PVP until the Wednesday.
It’s already a major step up from the original system where only the top x% depending on server population could become R14, and even longer ago honor would decay
The purpose is to make higher ranks harder to achieve. Without milestones, ranking would be trivial and everyone would eventually reach R14.
Realistically the only purpose to the current system was to get rid of the old archaic ranking system which required treating the game not as your second job, but as your only job, to reach max rank.
The new iteration of the system is better but extremely flawed and still requires roughly on average between 28-32 hours of pure AV per week to cap out at 500k honor. Not much better.
The only reason this system exists is to give the ranks some sort of purpose, because if we ignore the vanilla ranks, any sane person would simply remove this system altogether and simply make the gear available for a mixture of honour points and BG marks.
It would be a much better change to keep the ranking system in place with the titles as a “superficial” thing that people can work towards if they do choose. However for the gear, it should just have been made available for gold/honour/marks. They should have also buffed the honour gained form WSG/AB as they’ve done in other versions.
The gear could look like this for example :
Rare helm : 30,000 Honor points, 10 AB marks
Epic Helm : 120,000 Honor points, 20 AB marks 20 WSG Marks + 20 AV
R14 weapon - 250,000 honor points, 50 ab marks, 50 wsg marks 50 av marks
Just an idea, but such a system would still not trivialise obtaining these items, for example for a r14 weapon this system would still require 150 games played for this weapon alone, assuming that each game lasts on average, 15 mins, this is still around 37 hours grind for a SINGLE weapon, but at least this would encourage PvP and participation in the other battle grounds. ***
For something like the blue gear, you’re looking at a much more reasonable grind. The purple pieces would still take a while to get, but people could get them at their own pace without adhering to the current ridiculous system where you could grind 3 days straight, have something happen irl and come back on the Wednesday and make 0 progress
*** I will say, if it was up to me, I wouldn’t have quite so high requirements of time commitment for these gear pieces. Id probably have the weapons at about 15-20 hours grind (assuming 15 mins games). The actual honor amount can obviously be gained in less time in most cases, than the marks.
Complaining about time effort of new system is really beyond crazy. At this point people should just get items via mail
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The current system doesn’t require effort, the items are essentially “free”, the only requirement is to afk run to drek Alterac valley for 20-30 hours a week for 6 weeks.
This not only requires no effort, but it pretty much means that only people with no life/job and those who can WFH and have a second pc/laptop running wow semi afk will be able to rank to 14. There’s no effort here.
Better to have a system which can have a similar time requirement but requires you to actually PvP in all battlegrounds (it’s PvP gear after all) and allows marks/Honor to be accumulated as and when the player is able too, and stored for use. Meaning it’s not as punishing for those who cannot grind straight for weeks.
For the no life/unemployed and semi-afk WFH crew, not much changes, they’d still get the gear first they’d just need to do a lil bit of actual PvP to get it
Getting items in classic is always only time based. Spending time is effort. Otherwise nothing is an effort in classic. Joining a pug and get an item slot from mc/bwl is even more “free” then because the time investment is just visit one raid. So your logic isnt adding up. Also, what is this “unemployed” cringe. If you cant spend 3 days in a week to play, then you either dont want it, or you basically have no free time in your life which is kind of alarming. I could easily do 500k by playing after work every day.
Getting r14 is way too easy already. Now you all want it even easier because you actually dont want to rank or your life doesnt allow free time at all
In my suggestion, it is still time based. However that time doesn’t need to be on a strict week by week schedule and would revive PvP, which is currently dead.
I’m not the one claiming it’s some sort of gargantuan achievement requiring tons of effort to get purple gear, so my logic is fine
Being forced to grind 30 hours a week to obtain the purple PvP gear is not fun, nobody finds it fun. The current system literally requires that you treat it like a job. People don’t have time for that.
The back of a cigarette packet alternative I’ve just came up with requires roughly the same time comittment, perhaps more, but the player isn’t forced to complete this on a strict schedule.
Insofar as you are able to grind out 500k after work that’s great, but most people typically work 8 hours a day, assuming no commute there and back (complete WFH, which isn’t the majority of people anyway) and assuming 8 hours sleep, that leaves you with another 8 hours. If you dedicate all that time to ranking then sure, you will not have any issues hitting 500k p/w assuming the vast majority of your games are 7min AV games.
What you don’t realize though is this is the literally definition of “no lifing”. You can choose to do that if you wish, I’m not judging. But most players have families, kids, other hobbies that 8 hours they can maybe dedicate 3 or 4. Perhaps a 6-8 hour WoW “shift” on a weekend. Either way, the system sucks and there’s not really a good argument for it other than “I had to do it so everyone else should too”
Again, it’s a tedious system that rewards unhealthy behaviours. You can have the gear require the same time committment but do it in a better way, such as making people actually PvP to get the gear via mark requirements and not having weekly Honor/rank resets…
The system was changed in TBC for a reason, the current system is “better” than the original vanilla system but only marginally
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You don’t need 500k honor. Max honor you need is 419k when ranking from 13 to 14. With AV week it’s around 10 hours split between 4 days. Totally doable. You won’t be the first on server, but why would you care?
You don’t need 500k honor to go R13 → 14 but you need 500k Honor the 2 weeks prior to even get to that point.
The point isn’t that it’s not doable, it is doable. All you need to do is as you say yourself, dedicate an unhealthy amount of time to it for 6 weeks straight. All of that time spent in one battleground, literally running from A to B and hoping it is over ASAP. No one enjoys this, no one finds it fund. It’s literally a chore.
The point is that the system sucks, they should change it to something else, like the TBC system that replaced the ranking system the first time
No, you don’t. R12-R13 is 3 weeks of 338k. Earlier ranks require even less. You can rank faster by farming 500k on certain weeks, but you don’t need to do it.
You’re free to play other battlegrounds. They exist and they pop. That’ll take longer, but may be you’ll enjoy it.
I agree that AV honor is the root problem. If AV would yield similar amount of HpH, compared to other battlegrounds, a lot of issues would disappear. Ranking would be difficult, most current R14 players (me included) wouldn’t even try it, battlegrounds were more diverse, premades would be numerous. Players, who are living their lives in AV right now, would be somewhere in open world.
They should have released “original” AV, which was impossible to rush. So it has to be played “properly”. AV should take hours, so HpH would be balanced with other battlegrounds, as it was originally.
No, the system is good. Alterac is bad. TBC works that way, because PvP gear is not that useful for PvE in TBC. You would also need to rework gear itemisation in Classic, so R14 weapon wouldn’t be on par with AQ weapons. Or delay release of PvP epic gear and weapons until Phase 6. That would also work, I guess, as a catch-up.
If you are doing it then fastest possible way, it is 500k, 500k, then 418k. This is getting slightly beyond the point anyway now, saying that you don’t have to farm 500k you can just do it slower and do 300k~ instead isn’t really a defence of the system.
Assuming 7 min games and 2000 Honor a game to get 300k honor is still 17 and a half hours of spamming AV in a single week, to get those 7 minutes games it involves doing as little PvP as possible as well.
It’s just a crap system whatever way you look at it, you can have this take time but it shouldn’t be make X progress on one week, it should be whenever the player chooses to PvP. If someone wants to stay awake for 7 days straight pvping they should be able to do that in one week, If someone wants to take 3 months playing a few games a day to get one piece of epic PvP gear that should be fine too.
I suppose it doesn’t matter at this point anyway given anniversary servers are quite dead and tbc is just round the corner anyway
You want free epics. I don’t agree with that. Ranking should be more difficult, not less. Ranking should be more time-consuming, not less. You shouldn’t have high ranks, if you’re not dedicated to this game. You shouldn’t have epic gear, if you’re not dedicated to this game. I spent months farming Molten Core and I’ve yet to loot my BiS shoulders. That’s just one item. Equipment is supposed to be rare to acquire in Classic. It’s not retail, when you have epics mailed to you every week.
They are already free, once again the quick spitball system I’ve outlined literally takes as much time if not more so, than the current system. Just without the draw backs. The points about dedication to the game are moot here because again, even something like requiring 25 of each mark for a R13 gear piece directly translates into many hours of time, but that the player can do at his own pace rather than being railroaded into an unhealthy grind. If the player wishes to do those potentially 75 games all in one week then they can and should be able to do that, no lifing would still be rewarded - they would just have to PvP.
To address the edits in your prior post.
The TBC system was not implemented because R12/13/14 gear was being used in PvE, hardly anyone got those ranks in the original game because the original system was degenerate. Resilience was introduced because of complaints about how those who enjoyed PvP and spent all this time grinding for PvP gear were getting one shot by pve heros in AQ/Naxx gear (,because most PvP players were in blues not purples due to old ranking system). The system was changed in TBC because the original system was just crap and unhealthy game design.
This new version of that old system is less degenerate but in some ways worse, because anyone can get R14 now and the epics are guaranteed and “free” you have every min/max pve hero doing the six week grind for the gear and reporting people who actually try to PvP. The PvP gear in PvE was never a vanilla problem, it’s an anniversary problem.
As for the other battlegrounds, there is rarely, if ever, an Arathi basin active on Spineshatter EU and if you are lucky there is a warsong gulch or two at any given time. Sometimes there is none of these either. I play these when they are available, I haven’t been able to get an AB in weeks though.
The reality is that blizzard has created a situation where there is literally no reason for anyone to rank/farm gear with these battlegrounds, if they ever make another fresh classic again, they should not use this system
So my opinion is as follows:
Regarding weekly minimum honor: current system tries to resemble original grind. You might call it degenerate, but it is what it is. Classic has many systems one would call degenerate which were fixed in the future addons. Even lack of quest givers on minimap is degenerate. But fixing those systems is dangerous, because in the end you might lose Classic. So I don’t have any particular stake in this particular issue, but I’m more of “no changes” person. This weekly minimum cap could be removed, so anyone can spend 10 years playing 1 WSG per week and get their rank. May be the game will be better, I don’t really know. But, again, this system tried to resemble original system which required unhealthy amount of grind for weeks. It’s already much easier because there’s no deranking.
Regarding general gear availability, I’m absolutely sure that current pacing is just wrong. Blue PvP gear must be released in Phase 4 and Epic PvP gear must be released in Phase 6. Also AV quest weapon must not be available at level 51, preferably it should be available at level 60 in Phase 4. Otherwise this gear makes a lot of PvE gear irrelevant. Also it makes content unnecessarily easier, just because average raider ends up much more powerful.
But the absolute glaring core PvP issue is the discrepancy between AV honor per hour and WSG/AB honor per hour. It must be fixed, one way or another. Stupid way to fix it would be to nerf AV honor. Better way to fix it would be returning one of the previous vanilla AV iterations which forced longer games upon players. May be it would require further fixes: modern players are incredible creative when it comes to abusing game mechanics. In the end, AV PvE rush meta should not exist and players should prefer to play whatever current holiday battleground is.
I also would add, that premade groups must not be matched against ordinary players in WSG and AB. Otherwise it’ll end up with degenerate farm of graveyards. 5-men premades in AV are fine, I guess.