Players/community don’t help either.
There have been tons of suggestions made in the past, and most of the time, they are being discarded by players (including druids sometimes) because of idiotic reasons like:
“that would make feral mandatory”
“that would be OP”
“an AoE finisher is not useful”
Guess what ? Over the years, blizzard implemented a lot of ideas that were considered OP in some way or another by the players/community. And it was not OP at all. At best, it was lackluster.
I’d also like to add that:
“that would make feral mandatory”
yea, because right now a class that can AE stun or a hunter/rogue on skittish weeks are not considered mandatory at all.
“that would be OP”
Totally unlike mastery stacking firemages or roll-face-on-keyboard DH.
this one I keep it for the end, because it’s amazing. Start a discussion about making druids an actual hybrid and you immediately get into hybrid tax neverending arguments. But at the very same time, people are just telling that “no when I DPS, I don’t want to tank or heal” and “there are no situations where a DPS that can become a healer is really desirable. I took a DPS for DPSing, not for offhealing/tanking.”
Sounds like hybrids are weak anyway. So why not giving us that useless ability ?..
It goes for a lot of specs actually. Arms would be damn near perfect if it had either a baseline self heal or stun. But thats a minor thing, easy to fix. Whereas the problems MM has for example is that its talent tree needs a complete rehaul and needs its identity reiterated.
Blizzard for some reason though would rather spend their time on working on borrowed powers than making classes feel good on their own.
No yeah overall I agree with that, arms’ biggest problem is a little less deep-seated than an MM hunter’s.
I’d say that Fury on the other hand is in need of a proper overhaul, feels very inflexible since a lot of it’s sustain and short-cd utility feels baked into the normal rotation, which in itself is very simplistic, albeit spammy.
Also all warlock specs are weird in the sense that either they’re incredibly frustrating to play against in arena or they feel completely useless, so I’d say on that basis they need a proper look into overhauling the entire class.
Actually raw hps is the only thing only priest is not lacking. They would use some better defensive and talent options but overall they are not that terrible. They just happen to compete with discipline wich is better for controlled damage profile.
Blood DK is a beast, it fall off a bit in higher keys cause of the raw damage it takes compared to others but overall I consider it in a nice spot.
Idk about enha because I don’t play it, but Shadow priest well, yeah it shine thanks to the insane scaling of the ton of bandaid fixes.
It is a spec that does not feel good to play if you are not super well geared.
Once you are geared yes, it is super fun.
Still VF have tons of problems that need to be addressed.
Disc is better when you play around it in really well setup raids, outside that disc has 0 chance vs holy.
Agree but still its a beast i never heal inside raids, rogues are beasts in M+ and PVP but they are not that good in raiding, that makes the class bad? Hell no
Ench is an amazing spec, for sure there are way better melee’s but that doesnt mean its not viable. Now shadow priest is insane both in keys and raids as long as people can play it and sadly not many can master it!
All specs and classes are compared to each other when they are max geared, otherwise there is only DH and nothing else
Only one, the haste is not enough.
If this will be changed though we move back to EP shadow that dominated every spec ingame by a large margin, so i guess thats why they dont boost them
this is particularly funny because now every single hybrid is at the bottom of the healing meters in every single dungeon or raid run.
So now hybrids are getting double punished. Not only does our active heal sucks but our dmg is partly based on hybrid tax.
Still feel it is partly intact
As in our previous discussions, you are still under the impression that somehow a spec’s performance = spec is in a good state, when time and time again you sre proven wrong by the community and Blizzard.
You call it whining, I call it not settling with mediocrity. I have played this game since 1st patch of BC and the specs and classes I enjoyed no longer exist and have been watered to shambles of their former selmes with Legion and BFA for cheap borrowed powers and degenerate gameplay- I can’t even find anybody who would have a solid argument about defending how ghost wolf damage tanking is solid and meaningful gameplay, for example. Or why is ascendance a talent when it was baseline for 3 expansions, etc.
If you want to just adapt and be content with a bad product that is up to you, but as blizzard has said themselves, performance is not the same as a spec feeling good to play. That is a sum of many more things ranging from the GCD to utility to rotation to damage build up.
I will just quote Blizzard’s response to arms warrior mastery change from now as an answer because there is no point repeating the same evidence to you over and again.
enh is bad because you flop quickly.
Dmg in keys is not exactly the problem even though there are lots of better specs.
Enh has neither the utility that is wanted nor the defensive that is needed or exceptional dmg that would make the other 2 areas matter less.
was always like that.
Holy was always pure healing output while discs is more about preventing dmg.
Preventing dmg only works well in organized groups. But in organized groups disci seem to fare way better than holy.
Holy has nice aoe heal but terrible single target heal that is for sure
no void form has the problem that you have long ramp and 0 burst. Once you ramp, everything is dead and if you don’t pull in the next 0.1 seconds, all your dmg is back to 0 and you have to ramp again.
void erruption should also do a lot more dmg and mind shear should either do A LOT more dmg or generate A LOT more insanity while outside VF
While you whined for a spec you called badly made because mastery appear on top of details and now you said
Play the game, stop talking about things you have 0 clue for.
At this point i cant hold my laugh with your statements that cancel your previous statements
Ench is in a good-ish state.
It needs help but there are always going to be better specs.
Our ench rocked meters yesterday on nzoth m, makes it perfectly viable plus he pops over 100k on 15+ keys overall.
Discs output is not coming from preventing damage=PWS but from Atonement.
The DR is needed when you progress world first kills, when content is outgeread disc is falling seriously back and in a raid that does not play around it its near useless.
Yep because its a reverse burst dps spec.
That is problematic in a few scenarios, other than that shadows are rock n roll
Yet you did talk about dks having problem in top end keys…
Who does them? like 2%?
We have to agree we disagree then because i love current state of shadow!
Its still the n4 best dps inside NYA xD
as I said, dmg is not enhance problem.
15 keys are not particularly difficult anyways so every single spec is viable for that anyways.
A few? You mean pretty much every single scenario except a cleave patchwork boss.
If you have boss phases e.g. wrathion or just every single dungeon or even world quests or leveling, shadow is just terrible.
Mobs need to live long or you will do negative dmg.
Fortified weeks on +18 and higher will be something where shadow finally is able to do dmg. BUT you will not even out dmg the r… proof classes as they burst AND do the sustain dmg that you are doing minus the burst.
You know if would be great if shadow had massive sustained aoe dps compared to other classes but it doesn’t. The dmg is good but only under certain conditions and then not even better than others…
That is why I said I consider them beasts.
I have really nothing bad to say about them. I just pointed out they fall of a bit on higher keys.
Are you arguing for the sake of arguing or something? I was agreeing with you on DK.
I mean of course that is a matter of tastes we can’t really debate much there.
I like VF thematically but is in game application just got dumbed down from Legion and in the current form i really don’t like it.
My priest is like 476, I bought ton of severe just to see how the spec is supposed to be at end game. Too bad I was not able to get my hand on a X3SA pieces yet. But for sure it felt really good once geared up.
This new iteration is for sure better than 3x COI.
I Hate Coi with a burning passion.
He has been doing this since forever and can’t take a L. He is convinced everybody who doesnt agree with him is a whiner and should just get good when nobody has ever argued against performance of the specs, but rather how satisfying they play.
So what you are after?
All specs on 26’s? Dont think that is realistic.
Compared to rogs/mages/dh ?
Dont think anyone can compare with them also they cant compare with shadow inside raiding. Its a fair trade.
No, not really but ive seen people on the forums like that priest thinking that because this class cant do 26 its not good.
We basically said the same thing in diff words
As ive said before, i never tried shadow + priest in general before BFA so maybe what you say its true because i did not play it in its former glory.
You didnt stated that plus you did not play shadowlands, therefore get your BS tier arguments down again because it does not work.
Have a CE, 2200+ to both of my chars… I think i play a bit.
On the other hard i see you whining about classes and specs you never played and you have 0 clue about.
You know what simp means?
You better google it
Tell him/her you attacked me in another post because i said arms is fine and you whined about its mastery, clearly stating there that you had your mental trauma against me from a chat we had on the arena forums.
Yet stating there how bad it is and how good it is now
You keep proving each and every point i made about you.
So if all specs can do +15, just never change the specs and classes? Great argument.
“Dont talk about anything you dont understand”
also admits having never played the spec before
It is a literal thread discussing shadowlands changes so obviously it is implied we are talking about that. If you scored F in reading comprehension thats not my issue.
And yet here you are, not playing the game.
Yeah because you are simping for mediocre game design it fits you perfect.
Ah yes its always everybody else being mean and bad to you when you go around berating people for trash opinions and then get surprised when people are mean to you in return.
You brought up the arena discussion, again, not me. I just said this was going to end the exact same as that one did with you taking the L and leaving the thread, which so far seems to hold water and we can certainly test that here too if you haven’t learned from being wrong twice already.