What's wrong with RP-PvP and how can it be improved?

Argent Dawn
21

I’ll be the devil’s advocate and suggest that the best way of improving your enjoyment of this stuff is ‘lower your standards a bit.’

There’s always going to communication issues, there’s always going a disparity of numbers, there’s always going to be competitive people who want to win (even if it’s just ‘winning in spirit’ because the campaign’s predetermined) and there’s always going to be weird prisoner situations, even in campaigns that ban the taking of prisoners.

It’s good to point out that these are problems, and to test solutions to these problems, but you should always expect these things to be a part of RP-PvP no matter how many solutions are tried. From Sent to the Savannah to the North Star to the Drums of War to War on All Fronts to the Silverpine Offensive, all of the same problems have cropped up in public RP-PvP campaigns, regardless of efforts to avoid them.

Don’t go into it expecting something grand and epic, go into it expecting a bit of chaotic fun as Argent Dawn’s community struggles its way through a several-hundred-player event.

13 Likes
22

Maybe something to try is to predetermine the outcome more.

If you base the outcome on RP-PvP performance you will always motivate people to not RP in good faith. You do not have to announce what the outcome is beforehand, but if there is one then there is more reason to focus on the journey than the goal.

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23

  1. Manage outcome expectations. Don’t make too much of an emphasis on “open-endedness” and arrange campaign plots/objectives in a way that both factions would feel they’re done something meaningful and had their victories, i.e. “hold out against the Alliance for as long as you can” or “prevent Horde from destroying as many supplies as you can” instead of “take over this whole location”.

  2. Don’t focus purely on hour-long huge battles. I think many would agree that these are cool only in healthy doses. If people start tabbing out of the game client while standing in frontlines, it definitely drags on too long. Let there be more side objectives, maybe semi-scripted random events people can react to? Small guild feuds? I mean, hell if I know, this seems to be the longest-standing and toughest issue when it comes to RP-PVP.

  3. And speaking of side activities, far too often I’ve seen unwanted reinforcements rush to help their faction comrades who are currently in a small-scale standoff/skirmish and aren’t even yelling for help. I get that you want to help, but you could either be intruding on pre-arranged RP, or ruining the thrill in general. It’s pretty rare to have a cool tense standoff or ambush just because there’s bound to be a huge mob running in to assist one of the sides.

  4. We know that drama and outrage is an integral part of an RP-PVP campaign experience, but ma-a-ybe just approach it with positivity and compassion, and if/when it turns into an unsalvageable trainwreck, just focus on the bright sides and your own character/guild’s story.

5 Likes
24

The rules that prevent gankfests also make it incredibly freaking boring, only being allowed one ability every 5 seconds, and the enemy often having plenty selfhealing, there is no way to get them low hp and give them even the slightest of reason to back off.

In the end it all boils down to the few people leading the event and the other 100+ or so people simply going where they’re told and continuing the monotonous, mostly auto-attacking “combat”.

I suggest a heavier restriction on numbers, so they’re more equal and it doesn’t lag as much, aswell as a looser restriction on what the attendants can do, so that it’s not up to some 2-5 people leading the event to decide what happens.

And sure, it shouldn’t be all about winning or losing, but good luck convincing all of the attendees of this.
Hell, I’m guilty of this, though not through not backing off, but trying to flank people or whatever, drive them in a corner or try to force them to flee in some way. As I said, if I’m surrounded, or attacked by something my character would be weak to, I will have him back off.

I do think gear limits would be nice though.

Also, screw the “try not to kill eachother” rule, sure, it’s annoying to get killed over and over, but you can always have the "if you’re killed, or somer other way heavily wounded ICly, /kneel or /lie down, and dont allow attacking those.

By allowing to “kill” people, you make a way for the people to make some stubborn idiot whose only goal is to win, to move out of the way.

1 Like
25

Idk. I’ve been shouted down by my superiors.

I do have a guide in progress atm tho.

2 Likes
26

Well, for start, there shouldn’t be any big battles but rather several smaller ones with balanced numbers. Big battles are good on paper but horrible in practice, especially when they drag on for hours.

Then I believe that all of the objective story should be scripted with the leaders of the groups agreeing on an outcome but RP-PvPing it out and making an engaging story for the participants.

And lastly, abilities should be once every three seconds max, not five. Twiddling my thumbs while I wait to be able to use an ability is boring. If the healers have no restrictions, then perhaps a smaller window of time between abilities could counter this somewhat.

Just my two cents.

7 Likes
27

The bigger question is whether it’s more about RP or PVP.

The amount of people saying ‘restrict healing’, ‘don’t restrict healing’, ‘raise/lower time between abilities’, ‘ban this’, ‘allow that’, ‘let me burst’, ‘let me focus’. It feels to me that the majority of attendees would be better at home in a battleground, so… why don’t they?

I get that it’s called RP-PVP, but I really don’t think it’s ever meant to be a genuine mix of the two.

2 Likes
28

For unrestricted I agree that the RP side of it really suffers. Imagine stopping in the middle of unrestricted to type out something - issuing an order, calling for help, or just emoting something not visible on the game model. It’s basically certain death. It’s why I also feel /duel barely counts as RP at all. You are basically encouraged to RP as little as possible in order to win.

Restricted however is a different animal. In my opinion it should not be used to determine outcomes. It should exist to augment existing RP with visual flair, but it is important that it is not treated like a competition in its own right.

Which is why I think that restrictions should be in place with the mindset that the RP side of things can fit in without altering the course of the battle. Balance is less important than pace.

1 Like
29

Its simple. You want Unrestricted PvP, Go for it. Just don’t pretend it is RP or matters anything in RP, It Ain’t. You want Restricted PvP, Go for it. Just don’t pretend it is PvP or matters anything in PvP, It Ain’t.

The two are sadly exclusive. Assuming my potato of a PC actually allowed me to properly get into PvP, I’m not going to spend seconds typing out what my character is saying whilst someone bursts me, at which point what is the point of pretending it is an RPPvP campaign? Its a PvP one… Also how do those Cavalry Charges work in PvP? Or Steamtanks?

WoW’s PvP is -very- limited in what it can handle. We’re all playing on an RP Realm, the Story is more important than the PvP, So…just run with it that way. Its a collaborative story, We got our backside kicked last night, and had to flee. You don’t -win-every scrap, nor should you, and accepting that makes for better story.

Unrestricted means Clownshoes, Lightning, whirling bunnies, and a battle over in seconds. Zero roleplay. Restricted means a slog, takes longer, less snacky stuff, pushing and shoving by lines, more ‘realistic’ than Unrestricted, but harder to adjudicate who won.

I think more coordination between the opposing generals in advance would be helpful “You know what, you’re going to win this one, but tomorrow, we kick your behind” Sure, that sounds overly scripted, but only between a handful of people who are essentially storytelling the event anyway! Like I say, last night the Sun Hawks went into the air -knowing- that we (as in the Horde) were going to lose, it gave some beautiful moments as we fought over the mountain pass, to cover the last Horde troops as they evacuated, then found ourselves isolated, and had to flee. We’ve never done that before. We’ve never had to run…But the rest of the Horde were so far away, and we still have no idea what the Alliance would do to us if captured, so we had no choice, but to run and fight another day…

What can be done about RP-PvP? Ramp up the RP element. This isn’t about getting honour points, or looking like an Internet badman, this is about -your character, who you are hopefully invested in, going to war and suffering the spray of blood on their face, the clang of steel on shield, the hiss as a magical spell lashes past your ear, the blessed feeling of ease as a Healer mends a cut you had taken to the leg, the Horror at facing a vast green juggernaut of an enemy as they roar, spittle spraying from their lips, axe proceeding them, leaping up to give their axe all the more impetus as it comes down, and all you have is this shield! Or the cruel hedonistic eyes of a slim, agile creature, more beautiful than you will ever be, faster, cleverer, it even laughs as you trade blows, and the laughter is like falling water, You feel crude, and lumpen, then you remember the Orc, snarl and raise your sword on high, double handed and bring it crashing down on the Blood Elf.

You have to make a balance between the PvP, and the RP, too far either way, and you’re going to lose half your market.

7 Likes
30

how about we let individual people who enjoy unrestricted rp-pvp decide whether its their rp or not???

13 Likes
31

I mean, you can open up the LFG window IC when in trouble if that is your thing. No one can tell you what do with your sub.

But unrestricted PvP doesn’t share many traits with what is commonly identified as RP. When your character’s IC abilities matter less than the azerite traits you got from your m+ chest this week it is hard to see it as being very story based.

1 Like
32

OK, they can do that in their three seconds before killed, Perfectly cool for them to do that.Totally their choice. Not RP though.

33

i got a sudden death proc ic, and i use a death sentence powered execute ic, ur ded now

34

But Dude, I was RP’ing!

35

From my perspective, I think that RP-PVP events and campaigns would go by with a lot fewer problems if there was more respect for the rules at play. It’s difficult thing to change and ties in with the playing-to-win mentality that often shows itself in abundance, but it’s always been one of my biggest pet peeves.

If you don’t like the rules someone has set up, don’t attend. Don’t complain on the forums incesstantly about how it’s bad and wrong. This isn’t giving feedback, this is being entitled and whiny. And definitely don’t turn up anyway while playing by your own rules regardless. Common decency isn’t a difficult thing to come by.

Restricted isn’t my first choice, but I have several memories of players blatantly disregarding the established rules and heroic leaping into battle, spamming abilities before fleeing again. It’s just ungrateful to the people who have put time / effort into organising a campaign.

If you attend someone’s event, you play by their rules or you don’t play at all. The resolution to this would be similar to what other people have said before me; zero tolerance for people who want to spoil the fun of others. Eject them from the campaign.

3 Likes
36

my mistake, i know you havent participated in unrestricted rp-pvp(where people genuinely roleplay despite the quick-paced combat) - winning rp-pvp with forum emotes is a lot more encompassing+cool i suppose :cowboy_hat_face:

10 Likes
37

Actually I have. It was an entirely dull and unsatisfactory experience, and put me off the idea in perpetuity. It was awful, really awful. That’s what switched me over to RPPvP which has been far more satisfactory. Unrestricted PvP isn’t accurate sunshine, unless, do people jump all the time in your armed forces? Because that would be really weird…Still, I guess trying to pretend you are RP’ing by mashing a few buttons is pretty…encompassing? If you could stop jumping, that -would- be awesome.

38

so you’re painting an entire community of people who enjoy unrestricted rp-pvp with a “this isnt actually rp” brush because you didnt enjoy it that one time

ok chief, i dont think we have anything to talk about

3 Likes
39

Press F to pay respects to the lost 500 :pray:

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40

Only the ones who try to talk about RP PvP, when they just PvP,

And yes, I think we have nothing further to discuss on the matter.