When are Rogues going to get some Love?

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
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Rogues are currently the only physical damage dealer that doesn’t bring any Utility to a group/raid outside of Kick.

Hunters bring Aspect of the Lion, Warriors bring Shouts, Shamans bring Windfury and Spirit of the Alpha, Ferals bring Leader of the Pack and Wild Strikes, Paladins bring Blessings. And Rogues, well, they bring absolutely nothing.

While being somewhat decent in a few select small scale PvP scenarios, Rogues basically suck in every other area of the game and are an extremely undesirable class to bring to Raids or Group PvP as their damage is extremely mediocre and they can’t offer anything that would make them useful beyond that either compared to other Melee classes.

Rogues really don’t need to be the Top DPS class every phase, or at all for that matter, but we’re at a point where the only reason somebody ever brings you to a raid or to a PvP Event as a Rogue is their generosity. We desperately need some more Utility baked into the Rogue Kit to make the class more desirable to bring to Group content, mainly to compensate for the very underwhelming damage output.

In addition, some of the Runes need some serious reworks as with the Mutilate change at the Start of Phase 2, half if not more of the Runes instantly became completely irrelevant. Shiv is completely pointless, Poisoned Knife is completely pointless, Slaughter from the Shadows is completely pointless, Saber Slash is completely pointless. And guess what, the rest of the runes are some weird tank runes that 99% of Rogue players are not interested in using.

This essentially leaves us with a single cookiecutter build that every single Rogue plays with very little to no choice, which is pretty lame. The runes just feel extremely uninspired and rushed, like come on we literally got 2 different versions of shiv…

Anyways, I really hope we start to see some changes for Rogues in the next coming weeks, because it’s simply not very fun at the moment playing one.

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I am waiting for the braindead comments about “bUt RoGuEs ArE oP In pVp, Neds tO BE neRfEd” while they dominate with their priests and 2.4k arcane surges. Meanwhile, as lvl 27 disco priest I deleted a 30 rogue in a duel who stunlocked me and i do not have dispersion yet :smiley:

Altho, I agree that we don’t have a choice. Other classes got such nice runes, ours are boring except for deadly brew and envenom, but unless you play full assassination, poison proc chance is not that good, but then you lose a valuable 5% hit chance. So far this build works the best for me https://www.wowhead.com/classic/talent-calc/rogue/005-02330500205001-05 can do some nice AoE every 2 mins, rarely miss an attack on boss, can burst but also upkeep dps on long fight. But this is the only build we can use.

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But rogues are op in pvp, needs to be nerfed

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I play tankrogue and agree, it needs some love. Having our -20% dmg linked to a finisher kinda sucks. Losing combo points whenever i tab sucks. Having no defense against spells sucks.

This conversation falls into the same category as the dps warrior one.
Learn to offtank the 2-3 bosses that require it. Now you’re useful to the raid. Easy.

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ferals, shamans, warlocks, and warriors can do that as well. they just swap runes and good to go. we need our dodge and parry talents.

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When are warriors going to get some love?

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So take them talents then.

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Yeah and not take DPS loot just because I am there as a tank right? Geez…

Do arcane mages need to respec to heal in case of need or just rune swap?
Do priests need to respec to buff or throw some heals?
Do warriors need respec to battle shout?
Do feral druids need to respec to buff/swap into a bear for bonus HP and armor in case something goes wrong?
Do hunters need to respec to give passive stats?
Do shamans need to respec for occasional heals, totems,…?
Do warlocks need to respec for pet buff/ss/green pill/… or to off-tank in metamorph?
Do paladins need to respec to buff?

Did I forget to mention some class except rogues?

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I’m not even entirely sure why shiv is a rune tbh. It could have been an ability book and it would still likely see little use other than PvP. And even then with how good mutilate is comparison to literally every other ability I still don’t think you would see much use.

I actually had a play yesterday with main guache. Decided to make a mitigation build as riposte/ghostly strike and yes. Nothing could do much damage to me BUT the out put was literally like 1/3 of a mutilate build. Even an offmeta mutilate build.

Poison knife is also a super strange one. Kiting mobs maybe. A ranged mind numbing poison. Again super niche and in comparison to shadowstep I don’t know why you would use this. Literally the only decent reason I can see is kiting elites. (If they can even be slowed)

I kinda feel like some of the runes need some serious changes. Like chest runes for example. Instead of this incredibly mediocre shuriken toss for aoe and how deadly brew works. Why not make deadly brew include a single aoe ability in poison bomb. A CP spender. Why not make a rogue using deadly brew have the added effect of a curse of elements style debuff on poisoned targets. You could even make it so it’s when the envenom buff is up the target is debuffed for the same duration increasing magic damage taken.

Slaughter from the shadows with mutilate being a thing is now completely redundant. Why not change slaughter from the shadows to instead decrease backstab cost and garotte cost and make backstabs increase bleed duration and dagr and when a rogue using slaughter from the shadows has a bleed active on the target it increases all physical damage done by 4% like the future arms warrior talent.

So many simple changes I think you could do to open the doors to more builds for rogues. Main gauche for example. Please if you want that to be used change it radically. Increase the threat/damage modifier on it so it actually does more than a wet noodles slap. And maybe make it so whilst the buff is active the rogue tank takes magical damage = 1/2 the current parry %. Gives rogues some level of skill when it comes to magical damage mitigation etc.

SoD has been absolutely amazing. But for p2 rogues have gone from being fairly viable with daggers and slow weapons to being 100% pure cookie cutter deadly brew / mutilate / envenom. And you get a group playing either daggers or tank. Or you don’t get a group.

Please blizzard open the doors for more rogue viable builds and consider changing stuff more aggressively.

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Poison Knife is the first attack you use when running to a boss, automatically get 1 poison on the boss so your mutilate hits for its extra 20% right from the start. It’s handy during any sad mechanic that might risk your 5 stacks of deadly poison falling off, if you can Poison Throw while running back to the boss.
It does have use, especially when roguetanking a boss, but even then it’s pretty limited.

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I mean it’s a point. I would still use shadowstep over it for starting a boss fight. And for tanking again I am not sure when poisoned knife would be better than Shadowstep either.

Again it’s still super niche. There is a lot of. “let’s give rogue this cool control ability” when rogue already has the biggest toolkit in the game for control.

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When the melee hunters will get some love, or no, when the hunters in general will get some love? :smiley:

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Are you sure about that? Following is not my words, but someone on youtube that replied to perplexity:

“Rogue is in such a poor spot at 40 - As a former 7x Gladiator player myself, I agree with most of what you’ve laid out - However once you’ve completed your opener and nuked the first target, most 2v1 or 3v1 situations are out of your control. For the bloodfest that is sod p2, am finding the PVE assassination spec, with minor tweaks to talents to be a lot more nuclear in terms of damage. Nothing more frustrating than opening on someone, getting them to 1/2 hp, just to not have enough to kill them because you’re waiting on cds.”

If a highly skilled rogue says so, and all other rogues in SoD, and global stats show that rogues are almost F tier, for sake of god, stop telling that rogues are still OP.

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Ye literally no where in any of my comments do I say rogues are op.

They have a toolkit for 1v1.

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I did not mean you, but in general for people who read the comments.

However with my alt lvl 27 disco priest I got into duel with a lvl 30 rogue that stunlocked me from stealth, had fear on CD, and yet I managed to kill him while i had 40% hp left.

He used sap, vanish, blind, gouge, cheap, kidney, between yes.

Does rogue really have that toolkit or is it just skill issue of other classes unable to deal with them?

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No idea how peipp can think rogue is OP currently. If anything it’s a bit of a joke. SoD rogue in P2 is literally the most cookie cutter game play I think I’ve ever seen rogue to be for pve

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I agree. people just fear them and want them to get nerfed, because they enojoy their 2k spell nukes.

i actually have good pve results. cant say that for pvp

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To be completely honest the absolute best thing I’ve found for pvp is stealth open with mutilate. Then spam as many mutilates as you can during your MoS window and pray you kill them with the energy pool

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true, 2 mutilates often do more damage for 80 energy than ambush for 60.

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Mutilate literally does more damage than everything except envenom. You’re gimping yourself pressing anything other than mutilate lol