Melee have a alot of mobility, but dude, warlock can still do very good.
I managed to get some rating as lock.
Gotta learn how to use port in a good way.
Serious question, if it’s impossible to play warlock in shuffle cuz you die instantly, how do alot of warlocks gain high rating? I can see alot of warlocks at high rating on the leaderboards ä.
No offense, but sounds like a skill issue or warlock isn’t for you.
Most “low rated” people want every caster to have exactly the same mobility. They think that would be fun.
Warlock have ALWAYS been a class with “low” mobility but tankier. compared to like a mage and they still keep playing it.
They can Reroll mage If they think it looks so fun.
In ny opinion, i like getting trained on my warlock instead of mage, I just go into panic mode on my mage and blink into wierd places.
fact is some of these don’t get that arena is arena
and in soloshuffle with 3 melee 1 caster lobby, it doesn’t matter if u r lock or mage
if u a lock “you are tankier” yes, but vs 2 melees?
and if u are a mage “you got more mobility” yeah but vs 2 melees ? imagine u got dk warr, u get yoinked, then what, u blink, and u get charged, u blink and u get charged, u alter and rshaman/hpriest dispell it
make it sound like mobility makes u untouchable 100% of the game, when in reality u are often countered asw
and this is why i never truly liked arena in the first place.
problem is you don’t think of the opposite scenario where you literally cannot even leave pillar if its tol’viron and they have an ele/mage/devoker. you can use all of your mobility to get in 3-5 gcds of damage but now you have no mobility to escape.
the problem is a 2 way street. melee have too much mobility when they dont need it but too little mobility when they do need it.
the solution is to either enormously raise queue times by making it so every lobby has 2 melee and 2 ranged, or to take a look at and redesign outlier classes like mage/rogue/devoker/dk who for large parts of every match can just turn off the enemy’s classes by pressing their 3rd teleport or 2nd slow immunity or 2nd vanish or 2nd magic immunity.
like i say to any wizard - if you think you can’t play the game because you can’t cast your spells and only are able to use instants, try playing warrior/ww into devoker/frostmage and you will realise how good you had it being able to use your instant cast 40 yard range spells when you compare it to heroic throw or crackling jade lightning.
you can be an aff lock playing into a ww monk and a feral druid and if you have a hpala you will be fine and win 3+ rounds. there is no such set up for the opposite ‘hard counter’ scenario. if you load into an arena and you are warrior or ww monk and they have a frostmage and a devoker or ele or warlock or hunter, you will just go 0-6 unless one of the enemies dcs.
i do think of the opposite scenario, and i cannot say it enough
I HATE ARENA CONCEPT.
also stats kinda speaks for theymself on rappresentation
as for frostmage, nerf it for all i care, i defend it when people scream nerf frost mage, because bfrostmage isn’t even that broken like they make it seem, but nerf it, i haven’t tocuhed it, nor i am gonna, it doesn’t matter to me if they do or not nerf it, i just find it dumb that we had expansion where we were actually overtuned, and when seasons like these happens when mage is doing rly bad on 2 specs, and ON PAR WITH OTHERS with the main one, people screma nerf, because they find facing rootmachine instant cast and slows tilting
every caster tilts from facing most melees the same way, so by that logic every melee should be nerfed, not that it feels like they should, most melees are not even overtuned, just trying to even the playfield.
People tend to forget the fact that being at range against a pure melee is a 100% damage reduction.
Part of the appeal of playing range should be the fact you can create distance and fight at range and not take damage. It’s a double edged sword when they have to buff melee mobility because some ranged classes can have a 100% uptime out of range, which leaves other ranged classes in the dust.
I’d gladly give up my double grips as a DK, if some classes had their mobility nerfed.
the problem is that for decades they have been waging this epic battle between those who chase (the melee) and those who escape (the mages) and every expansion they increase gap closer on one side to try to compensate for root, slow and escape.
The fact that some casters are practically dead meat, often finding themselves in this sort of “middle ground” (where it is believed that giving them more armor will solve the situation) is evidently a collateral problem. Obviously the solution would be to limit the escapes of a particular class so as to be able to reduce the gap closers of the others
40yd range right now is a joke, every melee could close that gap in one or two GCD where only few casters could cast a thing in that time frame.
40yd range with current melee mobility is no longer an argument.
the point is that with instant spells you can still do like 50% of your damage rotation and then can pass a skill check and get precog and do the rest.
if you play warrior/ww into dragon frost mage, you can do zero % of your damage rotation while being kited and there is no skill check to pass because between 2-3 hovers, 2 knock backs, rescue, 2-3 blinks and a mage knock back, you can never hit anything for more than 2 seconds.
so if you wanna get rid of one of my charges, sure, go ahead - but then let me do half of my rotation from 40 yards away in the same way wizards can do half of their rotation without ever casting anything.
And yet again as any melee you bring Mages as a reason why Melee mobility should be overtuned. What about locks or SP?
When SP is not overtuned like right now they are easy prey, and no amount of Precog and fakecasting would save them from melee train and warriors/WW especially.
If Warriors wanna have their charges/leaps with several usages of those, then SP and locks need to have way better term of insta casts(not destro) and multiple usages of gateways and circles. With the current design of the melee, where mobility is free, low CD and has such range, no amount of tankines or CC would save non mages casters.
You do realise sp/lock are supposed to have counters and one of them is warrior right?
What about other casters then what makes it fair that you will be able to port los to dodge enemy caster burst and pick and choose when you take the fight can you imagine playing a boom into a warlock when they could just port all game away from you.
There is a reason shadowplay is the best caster cleave when its good vs meele aswell and its because it destroys every other caster cleave because of how sp/lock has so many tools against enemy casters.
Do you realize that this design doesn’t work anymore?
DK is counter to every caster apart from mages.
Warrior is good against anything apart from mages.
And what about Melee?
You teleport - Gateways/Circle and it is a one-two GCD for Melee to reach you whenever you are ported. Look at AWC every time the lock was the target of pressure teleport gave not enough time for lock to even cast something valuable. Sure instants like corruption or agony was casted, but it was few dots. Not fear, not Shadowfury. Every time feral or other melee just was near lock in a second.
No melee apart from surv and some bad rets has problems with closing the gap with non mage mibility.
Warriors, WW, DH, DK, Rogues, Ferals all have more than enough tools in several instances and usages to close the gap with non mage.
Melee mobility is overtuned because of ovetuned stage of mages, so kill two birds with one nerfhammer wave and make mobility not so agressive and spamable.
Melee mobility should be nerfed or reworked to be more resource dependant.
Current dk only counters warlock… with Demo been the hardest counter because of the cleave on pets. spriest has been given buffs and dk has been given damage nerfs so most of the spriest comps just outlive the dk and kill him.
So what you are saying is you want meele players to hate their life playing vs warlock while warlock has a blast facing everything because it can kite meele it has 2x kicks/spell reflect/observer vs casters while been able to port los and use a shield while in a stun.
Yes meele have uptime on warlock but if you learn how to play warlock you will have competitive damage on the melees at the same time while doing stupid unhealable damage vs casters.
meele mobility and all mobility in general is overtuned because the game changed you cant just blame mage when classes like evoker and mw monk now exists even rdruid would have a field day with warriors if you nerfed them.
thats great and all but we dont have high stats right now but when we do casters will dominate i guess every caster should start casting again then and not have a 1 second cast time haunt.
I guess we should remove all the freedoms in the game aswell because you cant snare half the roster especially evokers warlocks have it very good at the moment with only spriest been a better caster and frost mage having 1 comp that is completely busted because of the way the cleave damage is sent with feral.
And why you think that it won’t be a thing to melee when their mobility would be balance?
Learn to play your spec/class and use cooldowns wisely instead of mashing your head against the keyboard and do thigs easy?
Dk was good against everything because how easy it was to execute your damage, now it is still easy to play, but damage numbers was put in line with other classes and still DK can win the matches by the raw damage that he unleashes by pressing a button without to worry about anything else.
What I’m saying is that I want mobility of melee to be nerfed or made intertwined with their resources to make things balanced. Like hero leap should cost chunk of max fury so warriors could use it from the start of arena mindlessly.
The part when you wrote about reflect/observer is the result of you twisting or assuming what I said without proper reading.
Because i play both casters and meele and a good caster will kite a meele untill you have played both roles vs decent players you wont understand what it is but yes a bad meele will beat a bad caster.
Every classes damage rotation is currently easy what about when a fury warrior decides he wants to train the unholy dk or a ww monk i cant port there is no way to escape but dks strength is that it can make casters lifes hell well some of them but if the damage is not there and the caster is playing a decent comp with another meele the dk will die before the caster does. its no harder to press curse of exhaustion into UA soul rip haunt shadowbolt then what most meeles are currently doing.
its not always mindlessly tho is it its just you are biased for example you dont like when a fury warrior leaps in onto your port and gateway because you have no space to port then you would much rather put your port down and run into the middle of the map then the game starts from there with them having to charge onto you.
Again its bias because you clearly dont play meele its an annoyance for both casters and meele.
I play melee and I see the issues of their design against casters like mage, but they have too many ways to fix their positioning, mistakes or other bad plays.
DK have very easy rotation in comparison to Demo for example, ramp up is fast and if you in range you can execute it easily.
And I’m not saying that I want Demo to be a second mage and mash one button to kill everything. I like the idea of ramping up the damage, I’m not the fan of how little utility I have to give myself a berating room to summon the demons.
I even not very fond of buffs that blizz brings to warlocks, they are trying to fix the issue tossing more damage to the warlocks when the core issue lies in hardcasting and lack of damage of spells that is hardcastable.
If blizz would make mobility of mages/melee more tame it would not harm anyone, because damage would still be there. But it would put both melee and non mage caster in the same spot where we need to be accountable for our misplay
The demo rotation is not hard tho its just easy to stop as its all hardcasted and id say its around equal unless you are talking about just the base damage of pressing your buttons with no thought behind it because when you face a new unholy and an unholy who knows how to set cleave and stack festermight stacks up its a very big damage difference.
at the higher ranks when people learn to not stack vs unholy it drops of very fast as there is no way to shut people down because of all the freedoms in the game thats why you will find that currently there is 42 warlocks above the top dk in shuffle, 5 warlocks at r1 rating in 3s with the lowest rated one been 70 rating above the top dk, and its even more represented in 2v2 because unholy cant cleave multiple targets to do the damage you are talking about.
No it would do harm because warlocks would dominate more than they do now its your one weakness been shut down by meele clearly if you nerf that its going to be a buff for warlock.
Also the problem with demo is you can get all of your ramp up done and have insane ammounts of damage out but then you can port to your side of the map and meele have to follow while they get nuked they cant run because all of the damage is pets anway and they wont connect again so you want to nerf their only option to fight against you.
So if dk is so much of a counter to warlock it does not make sense that warlock is performing better than dk in every single bracket pvp currently has to offer.
it’s what I wrote just above and what I’ve been saying for decades now, every time they create an increasingly elusive mage and to try to compensate they give new gap closers to melee. Who continue to die. Then there are us warlocks and the priest shadows, who according to them if you give them more stamina or more armor you make them “tanky”
Yea every time I hear about TaNkY warlocks I ask them who they would want to rather face as a melee, warlock any spec or a frost mage, answer is always the same.
Either give us at least one more port like mage’s shimmer and instant stun instead of hardcasting it, or give us disarm.