When do jokes and banter become bullying and harassment?

Community General Discussion
207

How will it be a better place for everyone? Just stop being sensitive…?

208

Why can’t those people who do it just stop saying it then?

Edit: It sounds like you are blaming the person receiving the insult. It’s not easy to “stop being sensitive” it’s part of a persons persona, a bit like it’s part of a sociopaths persona to not care about the feelings of others.

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209

We’ll I can explain how I got to that concussion and you can correct me if I’ve misinterpreted you:

  • You said that rational advice might have unpredictable results with irrational people. Its fair and I agree with this, but also note that anything could have unpredictable results with an irrational person.
  • You inferred that we will not necessarily know who is or isn’t rational which is why its risky to give the advice.
  • You said I should not give the advice in case the person is irrational and responds badly to it.

So since we cannot give advice to irrational people, and we do not know who is irrational, then that means we cannot give advice to anybody, just in case they are irrational and could react badly to it.

That’s the only alternative I see which is why I asked you what you think the alternative is.

Just from a personal standpoint, I don’t disagree that the risk exists, but I feel irrational people are an unmanageable risk that we cannot control for by definition. So we should offer advice which in the majority of cases could benefit the person.

210

Said the person who makes claims and refuses to go research their accuracy.
You can go access those teachings for free by the way.

Said the person who picked up a self help book and then made up some lame story about why he read it.

Said the person who thinks JPs secret agenda is making money off insecure males.

If you could only grasp the irony of your own statements and how ridiculous you are.
You just regurgitate baseless garbage like every other irrational activist that decided to hate him but cannot provide any actual reliable evidence and ends up looking the fool.

There is no point discussing anything with you because you don’t care about the truth.

211

When you become self aware as a ‘millennial ‘. Us of the older generation can deal with it all without being “offended” at everything. The millennials and the next generation coming will turn the simplest of gestures and jokes into mass hysteria.

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212

We basically agree on these 2 points.

That’s where I disagree.

Of course you cannot eliminate all risks of misunderstanding or backfiring, but I never claimed that it’s necessary before giving advice: not being able to eliminate the risks completely doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile to try to reduce them.

I didn’t say don’t t give advice, period: I said consider whether the advice is good placed. You seem to believe the advice “cope with it” to be always good placed, but it’s not the case: that’s why you need to consider first and only then advise.

If you, after consideration, still believe it’s good placed, go ahead. If not, then not giving the advice is an option, but giving a different advice, better suited to the person and the situation, is also an option.

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213

JP is now making $80,000 a month… after dropping his academic and personal consultancy work… by selling a 12 step motivational programme.
Men with a secure self-belief, do not go all dewy-eyed and evangelical, over some random psychiatrist posting YouTube videos, about what is necessary to change themselves and the world… particularly not, when the idealism being promoted, is antiquarian.

All the information contained in that programme has been widely available elsewhere, for a very long time.

You are appalled and offended that I think your hero, is a snake oil salesman and a promoter of reactionary role models, with a noticeable dusting of sky fairy polemic, crowbarred in for good measure… however, I have read JP’s materials and that is what I think he is, and I have explained why.
I don’t need to spend hours pouring over every single nuance, to be able to recognise manure, rather than have a Damascene revelation.

If you were hoping I was going to start quoting him, with a detailed critique, you are sadly mistaken…that would be promoting his reactionary nonsense.

JP’s brand is extremely popular with the AltRight, because most of the AltRight are excruciatingly insecure and male… just like the idiots in ISIS…different sides of the same coin.

214

Irony… the older generation is permanently offended, by pretty much everything, as the Rightwing media demonstrates on a daily basis, with headlines screaming about everything they are ‘furious’ about… indeed just the word ‘millenial’ is a trigger, for outraged ramblings by people of a certain age.

Just remember, ‘millenials’ will be chosing your care home, after politicians have squandered your taxes, plundered your savings and privatised your healthcare.

…and I say that, despite being a ‘Boomer’.

215

I’m not sure the older generation are always offended or by everything. They seem far thicker skinned. They grew up without every little thing being classed as offensive.

I would have thought the being offended by everything applies to a younger generation.

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216

Hmmm… considering the current state of the planet, Millenials are entitled to be a tad critical of the older generation… imho, we should take the criticism, squarely on the chin.
:grin:

217

That’s quite simply not true. The older generations (I’m talking 40+) don’t get offended. We grew up with the saying “sticks and stones… etc”. The modern PC brigade and SJW’s have a lot to answer for.

But you’re right - in 30 years time they will become our carers. At least we won’t be offended when they call us old gits :slight_smile:

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218

You don’t go to the pub much I take it, Iggwilv?.. any bar where the general demographic is over 40, is a whingefest of epic proportions!
:grin:

219

I think both generations are equally offended, but with different subjects.

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220

But I did put a lot of consideration into it. Ultimately the most empowering thing you can do is to tell the person that they can cope with it.

Regardless, no matter how much consideration you put into it and how you tailor the advice, you are specifically referring to irrational people here. They are completely unpredictable by definition, hence your advice (no matter what it is) is just as dangerous as mine.

221

That’s false. Telling someone they can cope with something can be a very good advice in many cases, but not in all. Telling someone they can cope does not always empower them.

If you believe so it makes even more more clear to me you are not actually putting enough consideration into the matter.

That’s also false: irrational does not mean completely unpredictable: I don’t see how you come to that conclusion or which definition you are using which implies total unpredictability.

Take as example a phobia, which is actually by definition an irrational fear: that irrationality does not mean total unpredictability at all, the opposite: it’s pretty useful to know somebody might not react rationally to something and instead e.g. overreact or freak out.

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222

You’re right - I don’t go to pubs much - it’s cheaper to get mullered at home :wink:

There’s a difference between whinging and being offended. I’m whinging at the moment about the younger generations being offended by the slightest little thing. I ain’t offended by them though.

223

I think where we may be misunderstanding each other is the fact that I accept a margin of error and believe that its an acceptable risk.
I believe we stand to help many more people than we harm, and the people that we harm would eventually end up suffering regardless due to their condition.

This is all on the premise that I’m not aware of the person being irrational.

If it becomes clear that the person is not functioning rationally I’d always recommend professional help, since I’m not equipped to assist.

I assume that if you’re confident to advise someone with a psychological disorder that you are qualified in the field?

224

I think we agree then? What I understood from your original argument is that you considered “cope with it” always a well placed advice, but from your last comment it’s clear you agree it’s not.

Also note that almost everyone is not completely rational, and especially in some particular situations the level of irrationality can be quite high. This doesn’t necessarily mean having a psychological disorder requiring psychological treatment.

225

No I really meant I’d only make an exception for someone who seems mentally sick.
The irony being that telling someone to get professional help just as likely to set an unstable person off as telling him to take responsibility for his problems.

For everyone else I think its good advice.

I disagree that its almost everyone. People who can’t control themselves end up in prison and I’m pretty sure that’s not the majority of us.

226

I think each person has a different view about what banter/bullying/joking is.

I don’t even care what others say in game- so i wouldn’t give it a second thought, i don’t have anyone on ignore either and i have met my share of stup*d people.

But a different person may give a damn what others say and how they say it. and it may affect him differently.

It’s an important discussion, but due to the range of people playing this game with different mindsets and age (yeah it matters kinda), i don’t know what can be done for it to stop, except report what we don’t like or made us feel bad.

My england went worser by the weather. Sorry, not my first language.:stuck_out_tongue: