When will the alliance finally lose?

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Thersa_Windsong
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Battle_of_Angrathar_the_Wrathgate
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Bragor_Bloodfist
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Othmar_Garithos
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Captured_Mountaineer
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/The_Hunt_For_Sylvanas#Notes
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Who_Needs_Cauldrons%3F
This is an assorted list of things the Forsaken have done that makes others not quite trust them and evidence of their allies not trusting them; if the Horde won’t fully trust the Forsaken, why would the Alliance? They use the plague against explicit orders, they’ve worked on reversing the Argent Crusade’s efforts of cleansing the Plaguelands and the very first time the Alliance (technically) dealt with them it ended with the Alliance being stabbed in the back.

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I am from europe and this character here is my main. And I will never give up.

Wrathgate was Varimathas’s playing his own game. and from him came lot of the worse stuff that forsaken ever did originally.

And you are really ignoring the fact how much forsaken helped blood elves trough.
I do feel that the problem kind of is that they were based on classic evil undead races writing wise but when you focus on their side of story and play trough their campaigns youll start to understand the complexivity of being forsaken and that not everyone in there are completly savages

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From him came the worse stuff that the Forsaken continue to do even now when both him and Sylvanas are gone and enough Forsaken sided with him for them to easily take over the Undercity.

Nope. Because that aid was only given so that Sylvanas could then blackmail the blood elves into joining the war on Northrend when Lor’themar wanted to take the time to rebuild their nation and people after the Third War and the recent civil war.

No, just enough for that to be the norm because undeath by its very nature twists one deeply. There are good Forsaken, absolutely, but their culture is not.

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It’s worth noting that the writing over the years was heavily compromised and sabotaged by different writers. Not to mention influenced by a desire to pander to some groups of players over others.

It can be said that the Forsaken were written to help out in good faith when it came to the Blood Elves, not only due to it being mutually beneficial but rather because Sylvanas and other Forsaken did have a measure of pity and guilt for what the Blood Elves endured at the hands of the Scourge.

It was only later that such aid was retconned and the story and world building has become such a heavily compromised mess that many role-players (myself included) have wrestled to make it all fit after spending months or even years portraying characters a certain way only to have a ‘lol just kidding lol’ pulled again and again.

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The alliance will gain half-elves (pointed ear customizations for humans and KT) in the next patch ! :partying_face::man_dancing::dancer::tada:

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Yeah, who doesn’t think of a 2,5m strongman when thinking about half-elves?

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Killing the vibe really.

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I’ve always disliked half-elves, not in the least due to how often they just end up being portrayed as mary/gary stus with infantile writing.

At least Arator uses an actual elf model. The Arathi look awful. Especially the fat ones and the vast majority just use a slightly altered human model with pointed ears.

Baldur’s Gate 3 had a nice design for them and the Bretons of Elder Scrolls are tolerable and especially in TESO, also have a nice design.

Here’s hoping that the developers remember that there’s many Horde races in dire need of additional customisation and even some of the Alliance races could use some better options - Void Elves, for example, are in need of some normal looking hairstyles.

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Wait, so by some of these examples, we’re allowed to include splinter groups?

Meaning in your own words, the Alliance can be kept resposible for the actions of Fandral Staghelm, Benedictus, The Defias Brotherhood, etc. They had an affliation with the Alliance, before they decided to split off for their own thing.

So by that logic, the Alliance have not once, but twice. Tried to give over the World Tree to the flame. First with Staghelm in Firelands and then again when his Druids of the Flame splinter group joined up with Fyrakk.

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Exactly one example, we can take that example away and it wouldn’t change how the Forsaken are perceived by the wider world be it their allies or foes.

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Well that goes both ways even forsaken shouldnt forget all things what they had to go trough. But this is really an bad way how they have dealt with this friendship thing.

They should have done long lasting mending the wounds storyline for both sides but doing this kind of fast twist just doesnt work and even leaves playerbase confused

The only thing they went through that wasn’t caused by themselves was the Third War or being raised by the Forsaken’s val’kyr.

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The Alliance shunning the Forsaken after they broke free of the Scourge’s control was very much a defining moment for them.

It doesn’t help that the Alliance then later went on to accept or at least tolerate Death Knights and they’re even more dangerous than the Forsaken if they snap, technically.

The game should have launched with three factions or more, really - but it’s a bit too late for that.

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Considering they had already killed Garithos and his lordaeronian troops by then I kinda doubt that. We can argue if the Alliance knew about that, when they rejected the Forsaken, but we can’t really doubt that the Forsaken very much knew about that.

Edit:
So, this mostly means that the narrative about the Forsaken as monsters versus the Foraaken as victims was already muddled from WoW’s start. Which isn’t surprising, when, going by The WoW Diary, many devs didn’t really get the distinction between the Forsaken and the Scourge,

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Were they supposed to do anything else? The only contact they had with the Forsaken was the Forsaken killing Garithos and with it the Alliance’s last true hope of retaking Lordaeron. Doesn’t help that they, as you said, had just broken free from the Scourge.

They tolerate death knights entirely on the word given by one of the Alliance’s last remaining heroes from the Second War, the only one of the original five paladins of the Silver Hand who yet lived. It is very different from a group of Forsaken showing up at the gates of Stormwind soon after they had betrayed the Alliance.

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Garithos was a complete detriment to the Alliance and sought to execute a foreign royal. I have my doubts that he would have been mourned. He was cast aside as a useful tool just as he sought to do to pretty much anyone who wasn’t a human.

If Garithos would be mourned is kinda besides the point. The Forsaken basically began their career as free-willed undead by breaking agreements and killing humans unprovoked. And no, it wasn’t just Garithos, but all the troops under his command that were left. Getting rejected by their families didn’t make the Forsaken the way they are. They already were that way before they were rejected. And yes, if that was known there was every reason to reject them. Apart from the unholy abomination thing.

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The Forsaken certainly had a darkness within them though that hasn’t stopped the Alliance from reaching out to and working with Void Elves, Worgen, Eredar, Death Knights, Warlocks, Demon Hunters and other entities so there is no rhyme or reason to their supposed stance on such things.

We already know that the Forsaken are potentially ticking time bombs however we also know that many of them have resisted such urges. The Alliance’s initial stance worsened things and laid the groundwork for things to spiral further out of control later on - combined with questionable writing.

I personally prefer the darker, more unapologetic take on the Forsaken and would prefer to see it make a return. That doesn’t seem likely, though - but equally just having them serve as fodder for the Alliance to sneer at and cut down is rather bland.

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The alliance has to lose the war otherwise it will never be better just like the whole story.