Neither did Orcs. While they had to fight for their survival clans did not exterminate everything in their way simply because they lacked the power to do so. Dreanei for that matter did not survive on Draenor because they were hiding (at least bot before the Orcs got tricked to serve the Legion). They survived because anyone stupid enough to attack them, like Gorian empire would be repelled with the use of their superior technological and arcane knowledge.
And Humans were far from nice and peaceful. During Amani Wars after Highborne taught humans secret of the Arcane just a handful of human mages torched entire army scattering forest trolls. Then less than 20 years before the First War humans of Stormwind stupidly tried to settle in Stranglethorn Vale which understandably provoked the reaction of Gurubashi. Did humans pack up an leave? Of course not. Instead Prince Llan Wryn took a small elite group to assassinate Gurubashi Leader. Then the humans almost faced extinction but they lucked out on the friendship with Mediv who basically singlehandedly torched entire army. Thatâs how huans did diplomacy.
They entered in Stranglethorn because the Gurubashi id not stop attacking villages and towns in westfall.
Yes, they did. And they almost did it to the Draenei. In fact, they were looking for the survivors.
The elves convinced the humans that they would be next once they destroyed Quelâthalas. Trolls were also predators of humans. Itâs understandable that humans donât like them.
In any case, the attack was initiated by the Amani, encouraged by the Zandalari (Those who, according to Erevien, are super innocent.)
I repeat: the trolls emerged from the organic life created by FREEYA.
The only native thing that existed in Azeroth were the elemental forces (And therefore, dragons and protodrakes which come from the elementals).
no problem, i mean, i coud have put more effort into gramma.
Because it realy look like i rage bait tipes into my (smartphone) keybord.
i was hitting on Ereviens âall titan forged creatore have no right to claim azerothâ since it works then double for orcs, since tehy are a, forein: invaders and also titanforged so he woud hit himself (again) with his argument
That does not mean the Orcs were wrong in maintaining their place in Draenor. By events alone, through the Frostwolves, Orcs werenât all hostile either. They were two races fighting it out and it just so happens one of them won.
The fact that itâs the one you donât like does not automatically make them Evil.
Yes. And the Sporemounds themselves attributed that they wonât suddenly stop after being beaten up enough. In fact, it even defines that they took advantage of a weakened Grond.
The better question here is: Do you have any sources that GUARANTEES that the Botani wouldnât have done the same? Would you also consider the Botani as evil in this same regard?
This I cannot dispute, because it is true and it did happen. However, just because eradication was not their goal does not make it so that they are morally greater. It in fact gives them a grey colour that I wish the Alliance still had instead of being constantly obsessed about being the âGood Guyâ in every scenario.
The same with the Trolls. Because what is missing here is⌠Why would they care? Again, I ask you look at it in their perception and not through the lens of meta. If you can give me a pliable reason why they should care, at the time and in their context, that aligns with their culture and lifestyle, feel free to share.
And no, I donât agree with things like âWell they should have!!!â responses. I donât really subscribe to meta hindsight.
Which happened after
A) Gulâdan convinced all orc clans that Dreanei are responsible for both annihilation of a minor Orc clan and the rage of Draenorâs Elements
B) Majority of the clans fell under the control of the Legion after they drank Demonâs blood.
Before those two events Draenei sent much more numerous and powerful Gorian Empire packing after the latter stupidly decided to attack them.
Sources I can find seem mixed in this but most settle on the fact that Gurubashi attacks started after Stormwindians started settling up closer and closer to Stranglethorn.
As for Amani⌠Gee I wonder whyâs that. Likely nothing to do with the fact that bunch of elves laid claim to your sacred burial grounds and now the other weird race arrived from Northrend and tries to take over some of their lands. Yeah who would ever be mad about that.
Draenorâs botani and plants are extremely invasive, but Draenor is their niche. Complete destruction is not justified.
We didnât think alike then.
Agree, Iâm also tired of the Alliance always being the victim and never getting its due revenge. There the horde would have reasons to cry, and not because of the supposed âcrimesâ like those in Dalaran or Taurajo.
The orcs were already talking about annihilating the Draenei in âRise of the Hordeâ long before they drank the demon blood.
Guldan was evil from the beginning, but other orcs, such as Durotan and Nerzhul, moved on when they discovered the truth. Even Durotan betrayed the draenei who once saved his life from an ogre attack by revealing the location of the invisible city.
From Chronicles 2:
"King Barathenâs strategy proved effective for a time, but it was impossible to stop all the incursions. One day, a band of troll riders eluded Stormwind patrols and blazed a trail of destruction through Westfall, the kingdomâs breadbasket. Three cities burned to the ground. Although Stormwind soldiers pursued the riders until they were exterminated, it was too late for the dozens of humans who were slaughtered slowly, savagely, and atrociously.
News of the massacre spread throughout the kingdom. King Barathen met with the lords of Stormwind and other nobles to discuss an appropriate response. The king continued to advocate restraint, so he ordered more soldiers to augment Stormwind patrols. There would be no offensive against the Gurubashi.
Llane publicly defied the king, demanding troll blood as payment for the deaths of Stormwindâs citizens. Barathen had no choice but to reprimand his son
in front of the royal court to silence his protests."
If thatâs what you got to give, then thatâs where we solidly diverge. And thatâs fine, Iiâm not really looking to convince anyone, just hear their views on why they believe this and that.
Draenor is also the niche of the Orcs, and they won that supremacy. By their invasive nature, as well as the lack of evidence of âBalanced Botaniâ, I can only come out that the Botani would have been worse by their nature alone or the same.
Which is a shame. I would have actually liked to see these kinds of fractures and divergence of opinion in the Alliance. It feels like theyâre very one-dimensional nowadays. They werenât the Alliance, but I really really loved how Warcraft 3 portrayed the Council Chamber cinematic in Lordaeron.
It showed Terenas having the headache of a lifetime, only thrusting his ruling viewpoint at the end as soon as someone suggested quarantine.
We are finally of the same mind on this one.
I donât really care of entertaining a âwho did worseâ constant game. I care that the story responds in ways that are interesting instead of playing the same bloody format over and over again. Let the Alliance get some revenge. Let the Alliance take it too far. I hate it when they feel like they donât have teeth.
EDIT: Itâs usually a meme to say Elves Suck, but honestly⌠Void Elves alone have been doing far more interesting and controversial things as a whole event collective in my honest opinion. And thatâs why I find them the more interesting of the Alliance makeup.
Due to the eternal war between the Breakers and the Sporebound, there was a constant balance between the two factions. The orcs, by accepting the deal with the Burning Legion, broke that balance.
Itâs undeniable but also ignoring the fact that Orc were literally tricked into accepting that deal. Gulâdan through the power of Legion poisoned the elements of Draenor causing illness among orcs and various natural disasters. He then convinced one clan very heavily affected by said Ilness of Draenei being responsible and that sacrificing them would appease the elements and cure the illness. After very expected retaliation from Draenei that lead to (with Gulâdan ensuring no orc survived) heâd spin a tale that Draenei annihilated said small clan calling the remaining clans to band together and declare war on the outlanders. It wasnât until then that he convinced Orcs to take in Fel Blood to even stand a chance.
You know who else partook and sided with Legion? Numerous Elves, Draenei and Humans. Should we declare those races evil as well?
As for Dalaran Considering that Jainaâs response for the action of few was to hold Every single Blood elf responsible and through Silver Covenant orders either Imprison or Kill at any sign of resistance AND take everything they owned is not a normal and justified action. And considering the plot never mentions that again itâs safe to assume those Blood Elves were never released and likely died in Violet Hold.
Itâs not comparable that a group or faction of a race joins the legion, compared to an entire race joining it except for a clan or two. Likewise, even if we accept that they were deceived, that doesnât negate the fact that once they were separated from the legion, they returned to committing crimes against other races and attempted genocide, first under Grommash and then Garrosh. In WOD, we are shown the cruelty and extreme brutality of uncorrupted orcs.
Jaina had no way of knowing whether the Sunreaversâ foul deeds were the work of a few or the leaders of the organization. They were at war with the Horde, and the Sunreavers used a neutral city to give the Horde an advantage, so Jaina did the logical thing in these cases.
The sunreavers acted this way TWICE and their leaders did nothing about it on either occasion.
Which was purge the Neutral City of Horde sympathizers and turn the Neutral City into alliance aligned city. And later throwing a fit and leaving Dalaran once Khadgar decided it should remain neutral because they needed everyone be it horde or alliance to stop the Legion.
The amount of Draenei that didnât joined the Legion amounted to three ships. Majority of their world joined the Legion either willingly or forced to. Two out of three in their leadership body joined the Legion.
Push them into right direction (keep in mind that Garrosh still took orcs from the time when their aggression was already heightened by the call to battle from Gulâdanâs scheming) and yeah they will fit the bill. We also saw that Dreanei following the light are every single bit capable of the same cruelty and brutality when they decided to convert all of Draenor into Light.
You may be referring to the âManâari Eredar.â Draenei are those who did not join the Legion.
She was appointed leader by the council. That is not a warcrime.
We have very little context of that war, but they allowed orcs to join them. The Iron Horde, on the other hand, sacrificed civilians to fuel the Dark Portal, burned them alive for fun, or fed them alive to the mandragoras.
The Iron Hordeâs way of acting was much more savage.
In the Maghar questline, a Draenei preacher could be seen speaking to some orcs. Some went with him, while he let the others go.
