That’s … ridiculous. Horde is its action and so is Alliance.
This action was done literally in this expansion - any actions done have their consequences. It doesn’t matter when the action is done as long as its not resolved it will have a tail that will affect the future.
No Alliance member or members of Kul Tiras are concerned about internal conflicts of the Horde, the grievances have been done with orders coming from the leader of the Horde.
Horde has repeatedly demonstrated such traits, which in turn is also excused by the arguments like the ones given on this thread.
When Thrall went to make amends with Night Elves Tyrande gave him really good response which really sums up that good intentions cant help mend the gap created by such actions
When you have washed the bodies of a thousand kaldorei burned and broken, when you have fallen to your knees and kissed the feet of a thousand mourning souls, when you look into their eyes and tell them ‘our Horde has changed’ and they believe you, only then will I accept your apology and treat you as my equal.” Tyrande’s voice, edged as steel, pulled the air out of the clearing. “My brethren here may be willing to entertain your empty pledges of justice and aid, but I know better. I have learned better.
That’s an opinion some people share, others don’t. I don’t say the actions of Arthas are that of the current alliance, others do
Do you blame Baine or Saurfang for the actions of Sylvanas?
You mean the leader that was interally revolted against?
So what can?
Tyrande is the next major lore character going full psycho and I expect her to die within the next expansion or two. Not really a character whose hill you’d wanna die on.
Yeah I wouldn’t call that a successful attack. The Alliance leadership were just mind numbingly stupid in that scenario. I mean Anduin and Genn came without any preparation for the blight and were just like: “oh no the forsaken are using the forsaken blight that the forsaken use, how were we to predict this?!”. If it wasn’t for Jaina ex machina coming to the rescue the Alliance would’ve lost.
I’m talking the idea that alliance sticks to assaulting small settlements. UC (irrespective of blight funk) demonstrates the alliance are capable of mounting a successful breach of a well fortified enemy city, which is not something the horde has demonstrated it can do.
Similar was displayed in Dazar Alor, to a lesser degree.
So yeah, factoring blight, no good. However Sylvanas used it as her trump card, forces defended UC, and failed. So even if the situation was a dumb play (because the enemy is a Blight spamming douche) it still demonstrates some capacity people are downplaying here.
Because there is no such thing as Alliance Arthas, his action can be considered Alliance action up till he picks up Frostmourne, then he comes back and puts his own kingdom on sword and kills everyone on sight that is considered Alliance.
Same as Sylvanas ditched the Horde after screeching “Horde is nothing”.
I certainly do not have any trust either, or reason to forgive the actions. Such behaviour only encourages more space to cause havoc in future. And makes Alliance inadequate - always ready to forgive Horde on their wrong doing or paths.
Does it makes a difference to Alliance? The statement still stands that by regret the damage is not undone.
The rats escaping the sinking ship that’s what it was - it was Saurfang and Baine that made that ship sink as well. So there’s that.
Not peace it seems at least not for many Alliance players, because we saw wwhere that leads.
So that’s the point you’re taking, where she stops being horde? So if she sided with the Jailer during legion, it doesn’t matter because she didn’t screech “the horde is nothing” yet?
Very true, Alliance should be more bloodthirsty and less keen on interracial relationships between leaders of the Horde and Jaina
I mean, yes? Does it make a difference if the person you’re standing in front off supported genocide or fought against it? Yes it does.
Half true, the ship wouldn’t have sunk if the “rats” didn’t escape it. If Saurfang & Co. didn’t revolt against Sylvanas, the war would still be at a full blown conflict. I’m not certain who would’ve won the war between alliance and horde if it ended up in becoming an all out war where only one side can remain. Obviously that would’ve never happened for gameplay reasons.
How come this damn game is preaching “Make Love not War” and “Violence only creates more violence” for near roughly 15 years now, yet somehow both PCs and NPCs still don’t understand that?
Don’t get me wrong, I love me some conflict, but arguing that revenge solves the issue of neverending revenge doesn’t sound solid to me.
Well every well written character has to have some sort of point. That’s why WoW lore is going steadily downhill, they’ve run out of points to make.
The ones that died there or got ressurected as his first Death Knights to serve him?
That was the moment she stopped acting in Horde name and using Horde’s name in her actions.
How when everytime there is a bad warchief they jump on that genocide ship and every time Alliance has to take a hit. That’s incompetence of other person. Surely doesnt disolve my doubts, let alone fix the problem.
It was only Baine and Saurfang though. Lor’themar started to doubt her when he sensed she conspired with Azshara. He stood aside when Baine was taken in custody and executed. And that man sits on the council now.
Sadly.
Because each time we are close to it - game needs to stir a new one, that’s the whole concept. I was on board with Anduin’s Forsaken human reuniting mission. But when its always Horde starting full scale wars it’s bit laughable to defend that concept.
Because WoW writing is terrible, that’s why. It’s been on repeat for quite a while now, with “Fight against each other, put our differences aside to fight against big bad, then fight against each other again” and the occasional “Oh no, our warchief is a big meanie, alliance pls help” tossed in there.
A revolution is a gradual process with people sowing seeds of dissent and then said seeds gradually growing.
It’s not really a case of “Our almighty leader whose word is law did something bad, let’s fight them” and everybody simply accepting that statement. Not even WoW writing is that bad.
But all those actions always get attributed to individuals, rather than the Horde in general.
Again, don’t get me wrong, love the conflict, would love an honest war between the alliance and the horde, but both sides are filled with wimps.
Horde is two factions in one, one bloodthirsty one and one pacifist one. The alliance is the pretty boy faction, who was somewhat fueled by hatred, but then Varian died.
The thing is, if the alliance is going to keep helping the people fighting against the bloodthirsty horde, said alliance can’t really be upset with “the horde” in general.
Not part of the horde story. We never go there. No NPC ever references it towards horde etc. It was a quilboar attack changed to horde for faction war reasons.
Never received such orders.
Brenedan held no strategic value. Neither did Voldun. Voldun was an area of exiles anyway, so it is naturally the best area to establish a base on since the Zandalari going there was well, not very likely to happen.
Still not authorized by any leader, the horde in general or the warchief. If we go that route. Otherwise: Not canon and disregarded as stated.
It isn’t a trading game where you go “Oh, you did this atrocity, so we can do that atrocity”
It doesn’t have to be -fair- especially when one Faction is ‘the Good Guys’ and the other Faction is ‘the not so Good Guys’ . War is very rarely -fair-
Yes and No. Rastakhan never actually cared that much, and he did in fact send envoys to Orgrimmar and Stormwind (Remember the little warcanoe with the troll you could talk to on Alliance) and you could actually get Zandalari Rep way back in the day (Sadly this did not carry over!) The Zandalari we see in Pandaria and Thunder Isle were Prophet Zul’s faction, who were rather famously not working for Rastakhan. It is highly unlikely Rastakhan even knew thee were Zandalari -there-.
He did. And General Hawthorne seems to be a man whose intentions were as noble as you mention, you certainly get that impression when questing Alliance side.
-Unfortunately- the troops sent in were Penal Troopers from the Stockades. So there was a lot of death, and Civilians were not spared, because, hey, that’s what Penal troopers do. You deploy them, there will be atrocities no matter your orders. So Hawthorne the man, was good, the Alliance however, was not.
This is 100% true. Alex Afrasiabi admitted there had been a ‘breakdown in communication’ with regards Stonetalon. Garrosh was supposed to actually be cool with what happened, and happy with it. He was -always- supposed to be a dishonourable scumbag, and it was Afrasiabi who got it wrong. Fair play to him for having the stones to go “Whoops, I did a Bad!” but equally you have to wonder at Blizz’s QA. How did they not notice that before it went live?
Highly likely, it certainly was a hub for Hunters and suchlike.
Sadly so. It was similar to Theramore in thsi regard, just that Theramore was much more military focussed, the civilian aspect was lesser, whereas Taurajo was kinda closer to 50/50.
So we are forced to discuss this nonesense as it is and as it stands Horde has its story as warmongers and Alliance as incompetents, the whole reason of this thread and discussion that debunking what horde did with Taurajos and such is bit silly.
So is grinding the reputation and with each grievences reputation goes down even more until there is not trust.
And now Alliance members have little to no trust.
I remember in WoT Orgrimmar members were happy to start a war. I mean people are mob manipulated by the propaganda.
Yeah its been issue for both factions - one cant find its way after Thrall is gone and another is just overshadowed by Human potential.
Debatable, there’s lots of unresolved stuff still going on in Horde vs Alliance. But I agree there are new seeds of hope that really happened in later expansions.
But these kind of moves just drops us back to square one.
Again mate - just because you didnt experience it doesnt mean it did not happen. The evidence is there.
There’s a parchment in the quest signed by Sylvanas.
Both were excellent positions to land in and get some foothold on the continents. That’s their value. Places hard to defend.
Still canon and I agree not authorised by Warchief, it was the rash act of a bloodthirsty general enacted in Horde’s name thus why he deserved instant death from Garrosh. Responsibility still lies on Horde, even though never served their agenda.
There’d be lot more if he didn’t betray his own plan because he acted “dishonorably”, truth be told. I don’t understand his sudden moodswings in BFA, i genuinely don’t.
He puts the catapults where they are, makes the plans for the war of the thorns but somehow tossing an axe at one of the key figures of the enemy, while you’re fighting with ballistas, ranged weaponry and magic, is dishonorable?
We will get over it when the criminals responsible for Purge of Dalaran will be brought to justice. Naming Jaina and Vereesa. No peace with the alliance dogs ever. Lok’tar!
