I use the word ‘right’ only because I lack a better word for it, but this is all based on things I’ve noticed about discussions of this game’s lore.
It’s something that comes up whenever a character says something or does something that contradicts official and objective lore, even if it’s lore that the character has no reason to either be aware of, or be considerate of.
It’s something that comes up whenever a character offers an opinion or performs an action based on their experiences and their upbringing rather than the most objectively rational course of action.
It’s something that comes up whenever a character or a group of character’s morality and laws or lack of them don’t match up to our own morality and our own laws.
It’s something that comes up whenever a character says something or performs an action without reflecting on their own experiences with such a topic or such actions first, leading to that character being hypocritical.
It’s something that comes up whenever a character is technically wrong, at least from the perspective of modern Western society with access to all of Warcraft’s lore.
I won’t ask which characters you consider wrong, because this will inevitably lead to the usual faction-based finger-pointing and a hundred posts of raw nonsense. I mean, that might happen anyway, but I’d like to try and avoid it.
Instead, what characters do you expect to be right? What characters do you believe are absolutely above hypocrisy, above saying anything that might be factually incorrect, above performing actions that can be considered immoral by our society, and above reacting to situations based upon their upbringing and their experiences?
The only character that I personally expect to be flawless and immaculate in terms of rational thought, setting knowledge, sincerity and morality is Anduin Wrynn, especially considering that he’s now endowed with a supernatural gift for knowing whenever he might do something immoral or ignorant, thanks to the Divine Bell. I think that he’s a less interesting character for it too, but that’s neither here nor there.
So, what about the rest of you? What characters do you expect to have a flawless rational mind, a complete knowledge of the setting, strong adherence to Western morality and an absolute lack of hypocrisy?
Can’t add much to the discussion.
I agree with you: it’s Anduin.
My Alliance warrior would follow him no matter what.
It’s stated that he is wise beyond his years.
My Horde character would follow Saurfang.
Why ?
Because Anduin recognise him as a character that still holds Honor.
In fact that’s the only argument I have now.
Anduin is written by the writers, he is the king of Stormwind and he believes Saurfang has honor.
Not every character has to be morally grey, especially after Blizzard’s inability to write a good one. I don’t see what is wrong about Anduin just because he represents the morally white archetype. Every story needs a classic good guy.
And by the way, Anduin can also use the Void, so he is not flawless on the moral spectrum, he will mind control lesser beings if it suits his noble needs.
I feel that this has less to do with how ‘rational’ or ‘flawless’ his logic is, and more to do with how writers consistently draw circles around him to validate even his wildest and most illogical decisions/points of view regarding anything.
Anduin’s character doesn’t rationalise the best course of action. He just says one thing, and then writers create the rest to prove him right.
There have been tons of bad decisions that have been validated afterwards. Many times in the most illogical and mind-numbing way possible.
But, getting side-tracked here. To answer your question:
In terms of Western ideology? The Alliance’s set of characters wins that by a tonne. It is the most basic form of social PoV of ‘perfection’ we know and that is placed on the shoulders of Anduin.
Why? It’s for the same reason why the Horde is being damaged numerically and popularity wise. There is barely anyone already going to bother looking at the viewpoint of the Horde because a lot of what they hint to do could already be seen as immoral. But this is also what’s hurting the Alliance, due to how nowadays they are preferred not to be seen as doing that same, dubious act.
However, like many, Anduin is a victim of no-writing. As Zarao pointed out, anything he says is made true with him giving a dramatic element of his emotions on top of it. There’s no point in fighting an individual that is written like that, because it uses that untouchable wall where no player can really touch but merely throw shade at.
I agree. I don’t think they want to tell a story that contradicts Anduin’s morality. Anduin in many ways thinks like an ideal modern liberal. Undermining him undermines the position most of the writers hold.
I disagree and I find him thoroughly uninteresting. I’d even argue that his use of the Void doesn’t mar him in the slightest, we don’t see it impact his personality or influence his mind. It’s just another power that he possesses without any disadvantages.
But looking at the posts in this thread, it seems as though a lot of posters are okay with characters being flawed, hypocritical, ignorant and biased. In which case, I wonder why so much of the criticism surrounding characters in this setting seems to damn those characters for being hypocritical, ignorant or biased.
Going back to this… I don’t think Anduin is a “classic good guy”. Especially “classic” doesn’t seem very fitting. Ideed, Golden has made it quite clear that she considers him an example of a more emotional, vulnerable kind of man that is supposed to be a possible role model for the next generation. This is certainly not the classical good guy.
When I think of classical good guys of our era I think of characters like Superman an Captain America. Aspirational, decisive figures that try to stand strong between evil and its victims, never giving in, never compromising on principles, knowing what they stand for and what they stand against. And I do think they make the worlds they are part of better.
But that’s not Anduin. We can argue if he enriches the world of warcraft, but he certainly doesn’t do it in a “classical” way.
I agree. In a way he’s the opposite of a classic good guy.
Always giving in, compromising on his principles, not really standing for something at all.
Anduin is mostly a blank slate, when it comes to principles. He’s a light-guy who collaborates with the Voidelves, he’s a pacifist who doesn’t punish his underlings for waging war, he’s a wise king until he’s stupid…
He made sure the Horde knew they were being spied upon. That allowed Sylvanas and Saurfang to show the Alliance what they wanted them to see. It led to the invasion on Ashenvale and Darkshore and the burning of Teldrassil.
In my limited point of view, I see in this perspective:
The narrative has to instigate hate between the players.
And we can see by the forums especially in Us that has been acomplished.
I made a few month ago, a survey in general forum, who wanted war and who didn’t.
Not surprisingly most of the players replied war.
But there was a destinction: while Horde players wanted war, Alliance players wanted justified wars. https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17624533292
Here is a Horde sample:
“War, peace is boring.”
Here is an Alliance sample:
“Wars worth fighting.”
Again the narrative, portraying the Horde as the agressor matched the majority of the communities wishes.
Last point: both factions need to exist, so a narrative where one faction beats the other, where we have everyone playing the same faction is impossible, I believe.
Anduin in this case is the string that connects the future story.
Let us be honest after Teldrassil, I believe Anduin is the only character in Azeroth that believes that peace can still be achieved.
And this will have to happen because has many players stated here already (example: Arctur and Taxania), the plot resets every expansion.
So unfortunatelly for everyone: enjoy every moment of the faction war because it has to end, for the sake of the next expansion.
P.s. I was reading another topic and this comment seemed, quite acurate for the next expansion:
This is just some of my thoughts.
Thanks for your attention.
Cheers,
Narrative wise : Anduin. He was hammered so hard to be the good boy that is right and wise and everyone should listen to his council not to mention Golden loving him so much.
And that narrative is just revolting because Horde has it’s own politics, reasons and interests - it does not need Anduin’s catering. This is why I wanted to keep Vol’Jin as Warchief so he could fight this bs.
Especially to call out Jaina.
The only person that now I can root for is Talanji. I don’t want for Alliance to get away with Rastakhan’s death nor Jaina’s getting scott free.
Jaina - Why? because she already gave the horde a chance didn’t she? How was she repaid? Theramore bomb. Her mistake cost the Kul’Tiras men their lives and the Alliance the Kul Tiras Fleet. Now anyone says shes wrong now is late to the party.
Lets not understate how big a hero Daelin Proudmoore was, he fought in both wars and saved as many as he could from the scourge when nobody else came to Lordaeron’s aid.
what the hell all I did was funnel alliance forces to attack horde lands and use my capital city as a major alliance staging ground for years why did the horde attack me???
Horde mercenaries attack Northwatch Hold under the direction of the blood elf pirate Captain Thalo’thas Brightsun. No Horde leaders ever take action to reprimand Horde mercenaries, avert their actions, or make reparations to the Alliance for these attacks.
The Shady Rest Inn was burned down by Grimtotem Tribe. You might argue that the “Grimtotem Tribe was never a part of the Horde” but at the time of these crimes their leadership lived comfortably in Mulgore, the Horde tauren capital, and such a disingenuous excuse can hardly be taken seriously. You cannot claim to have nothing to do with a faction while harboring their leaders.
Burx arrived at Northwatch he gave the humans an ultimatum: either dismantle the entire keep and vacate the land in one hour , or be slaughtered.
The treaty was broken by the Horde, but Jaina was missing at the time so wasn’t around to try to defuse the situation. Seems only reasonable then to slaughter everyone right? …no.
Plus completely out of the lore prespective its warcraft not peacecraft so ultimately anyone preaching peace is going to be wrong
Why should they? Northwatch is an Alliance fortress and they’re at war. Could Northwatch even get constructed without Jaina’s support from Theramore?
Cool except the Horde got a quest chain to investigate and bring the perpetrators to justice too. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Raze_Direhorn_Post!_(Horde)
Why does this matter to Jaina? I thought Theramore was ‘neutral’, right? The Alliance/Horde conflict shouldn’t have mattered to Theramore.
You know, unless she wasn’t neutral.
And was in fact hostile to the Horde the entire time.
Feel free to hop on a vanilla server and try to wander into Theramore if ya don’t believe me!
The existence of northwatch hold was already a validation of their treaty since it’s crossed horde borders and was the major hub for Admiral proudmoores forces. Thrall was nice enough to overlook it for sometime. And yes. Grimtotem never joined the horde or supported their forces in any meaningful way. They used to live in thousand needles and Mulgore part times.
The Alliance/Horde conflict shouldn’t have mattered to Theramore.