In terms of gains and losses, who came out the better? Leaving aside particular goals, since they’re a little unclear, I thought it’d be interesting to think about what changes the battle brought about and who they benefit.
Let’s start:
Ships. The big one, with the Alliance blowing up a huge chunk of the zandalari fleet. Not the whole fleet (the Horde players send some away, and it’s mentioned as “most” in post-seige dialogue), but more than half. The Alliance took heavy damage to a few ships, but they didn’t bring many to begin with and at least a few got out. Big advantage Alliance.
Troops. The Alliance sacrificed a whole army, albeit a small one, to draw out the majority of the Horde and Zandalari forces. The Zandalari lost some troops to the Alliance invading from the other end, but not so many, and the Alliance lost some of their own coming up the docks. Troll losses included some elite priests and royal guards, though. Let’s say the Alliance and Horde came out even.
Leadership. The Zandalari lost their king, the gnomes lost their High Tinker. Rastakhan wasn’t really a great king lately, though, and he has a competent heir ready to take control immediately. The High Tinker’s absence is presumably temporary, but while he’s gone he’s left a large gap. Note that Mekkatorque actually did a lot of inventing and engineering work, and is personally responsible for many of the Alliance’s best technologies. That’s also gone. Advantage Horde.
Treasures. The Alliance destroyed a golem, which presumably was not able to leave the building anyway so no long-term gain, and plundered the Zandalari treasury. There’s no way they could haul out more than a fraction, so while it’s a lot of money, the troll throne is still extremely wealthy. Also, it was taken by adventurers, so not a lot of it is going to end up in the Alliance’s war chests. Meanwhile, the Alliance lost an amazingly powerful kul tiran treasure, the Abyssal Scepter, destroyed by Talanji to break the illusion it created. Advantage Horde.
Magic users. Both sides lose some powerful Light wielders (Alliance slightly more, counting a lightforged blademaster), a powerful monk and a powerful mage. Alliance loses two powerful Tidesages, Zandalari lose five powerful loa priests. In killing those priests, however, and desecrating their shrines, the Alliance has probably seriously angered their loa, who are powerful wild gods. Where previously the Horde would have had to bargain for their assistance, Gonk, Pa’ku, Kimbul, Akunda and Krag’wa will now have their own grudge on the Alliance to settle. Gonk and Pa’ku in particular are both perfectly healthy and have many worshippers, which make them even stronger than normal wild gods. Bwonsamdi is more complicated (he probably doesn’t dislike the Alliance too much) but definitely still leans more towards being on the Horde’s side - they’re his potential “customers” and the Alliance aren’t. Overall advantage Horde.
So, all in all… who “won”? I think it was pretty much a draw, and might actually be slightly to the Horde’s advantage. Do you think I missed anything?
Two points: Mekkatorque’s not dead iirc and will likely usher in the mecha-gnomes as an Allied race. The Horde definitely came off a lot worse in this one. Half the entire Golden Fleet is more than enough to knock them out of the naval theatre.
If i’m not mistaken the objective of the raid was to kill Rastakhan. They succeeded.
The losses incurred were deemed justified in the planning phase.
But i don’t want to sound negative towards your post, i think it’s great and it tentatively tries to open up a hot topic: that of retribution. How will we have our revenge?
Personally i’m totally up for Bwomsandi cursing the womb of the boy king’s wife to be so that they get stillborn babies.
Taxidermy for the dog.
The Alliance gaining mechagnomes later isn’t directly tied to the battle, the same as the vulpera probably joining the Horde as their counterpart due to the Alliance invasion events. As for the naval advantage, that is big, but not overwhelming. A navy only guarantees control over the sea, so that you can land troops and move resources, but the Alliance is running out of troops (according to the Anduin/Saurfang cinematic) and won’t really be able to use that advantage to its fullest.
It actually wasn’t, they were supposed to just capture him. Anduin and company talk about how they meant to discourage the zandalari from joining the Horde but actually made sure of it. That’s why you don’t hire adventurers to not kill things, folks.
It has been stated by several Horde characters (mainly Nathanos) that they need the Zandalari fleet or they’ll lose. Losing that fleet is a massive deal to the point where the Horde are on the ropes by 8.1. Which is now also backed up by Anduin in 8.1.5 going how they are basically on the verge of victory.
If you want to be technical then the Alliance “lost” the battle as they failed to achieve their main objective of forcing the Zandalari Empire to not join the Horde (however stupid it is), but it is a loss in name only as they have achieved and came out ahead by so much and destroyed the only hope the Horde has for at least a stalemate.
At least before the Old Gods come and probably wreck the Alliance because ofc’.
They have yet to enforce conscription. If the Alliance is running out of troops then the Horde have begun enlisting boars dressed up as Orcs. And Anduin by 8.1.5 like I said previously already says they are close to victory.
The Alliance. Why? Both factions say so in the aftermath, so that is what Blizzard thinks. The composite facts really do not matter, since populations and continuity aren’t things that Blizzard has a good track record with.
The Battle of Dazar’Alor was referenced by Blizzard as a way to ‘counter’ military speaking Teldrassil because even UC was still working on the Horde favour and they wanted to give the Alliance a victory.
The war started of by having the Horde winning, but this victory swings back the conflict into the Alliance favour.
Not really.
When the Horde wins, they are made to feel bad about the stuff they did.
When the Alliance wins, they are made to feel bad about war in general.
No side gets to celebrate bashing the other, really.
You can feel good about anything you want, no matter how evil it is. But to claim that Alliance players do or should feel good about something is another matter entirely. Some Horde players seemed to feel quite good about torching Teldrassil, for example. I certainly don’t feel very good about Dazar’alor or Lordaeron. Well… I liked the setup in Dazar’alor, and the fact that the Alliance actually attacked for once, I don’t particularily like how it went.
I said “can” not should or do. But you are right, there are some people who feel good about teldrassil, not sure how that is possible, but people are weird…
The Zandalari and Kul Tiran fleets are the focus of this expansion, they’re the catalyst to visit the two new islands. The majority of the Zandalari fleet was annihilated while the mighty Kul Tiran Fleet remained unscathed as it is in Kul Tiras. It is obvious that we won.
Its a military victory. Not a “win”. Not something positive for players to be proud of. Horde victories seldom are (at least on a moral level).
The Horde side hasn’t had one of those since the novella of the War of Thorns. Every other war effort has either been divisive or a failure in the end.
Even if you are playing for a morally bankrupt race like the Forsaken or the goblins, you are still told that your actions are tearing the faction. So it kind of sucks the joy of almost everything you do. That, and the way Blizzard removes all and any nuance or motive your actions may have to do so.
So, yeah, military victory seldom counts as a ‘win’ for the Horde faction.
The Horde has military victories or losses, but never holds the moral high-ground. This war is reaching an end where the Alliance is both winning and holding the moral high-ground.
But i assume thats the edge they wanted to give this plot with Anduin in charge.
Might be because of the endless arguments about the same thing over and over on the forums, but i’ve grown indifferent to that a long time ago. I think at this point they need to get their motivations and reasoning, behind certain actions in order, because that’s somewhat salvagable.
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