Only thing I still haven’t gone into a raid. I don’t have time to find a raid team with work, kids and a wife 
I only want myth track gear now.
I will continue to plod along on m+
Pugging them +12s can be a pain. What is more annoying is 2 times I went into mists 12 yday and with good pugs and the maze bugged twice and we couldn’t proceed it’s so annoying.
If you are a good friendly player, why are you stuck using PUGs instead of creating groups with your guild? There are guilds out there that focus on M+. Find them. Join them.
I unsubbed months ago, my friends list has been seeing less and less people log in since launch and usually only has 1 person logged in these days and their playing classic.
best choice.
Its probably been suggested before, but would everyone putting their key on the line provide more of an incentive to try and complete the dungeon, rather than all the risk being on one player?
The whole key system seems weird to me tbh (classic player) I can understand having some risk /reward thing for dungeons to progress, but is this the best option? /shrug
I always said that if you time the key everyone in the party should get a key upgrade. And if you finish the key it dosent deplete.
I think its a sufficient incentive. With out having to punish anyone.
1 Like
I think the key should have a few charges. To make it pug friendly. I have done a few runs where the tank went in on the first pull. Pulled extra trash and wiped everyone then insa left. It’s pretty annoying
What do you mean by this?
Blizzard have their own M+ score system these days.
Just because someone say “IO” does not mean their score is not the same on blizzards own thing.
I just gave in and just started running as brewmaster.
It’s a lot more exhausting than to play dps that’s for sure.
But at least you don’t just try to constant apply forever.
In all my years of running M+ i can count the time i’ve used my own key on one hand.
Honestly, its been this way for a while. People dont have patience, or the mentality to handle wipes anymore ot seems. People throwing their dummy out the pram.
Incentivizing is to increase the number of crests dropped from out of time keys to match those in time. It is to have all runs (either in time or out of time) to reward the same number and quality of items.
By changing the system so that in a run everyone’s key is at stake is so far away removed from incentivizing, that it just breaks the system. In a system like that everyone wants to be the one forming keys and no one wants to queue up for keys.
Just think how many players are behind the curve and have trouble finding/forming a group as it is. With a system like that which punishes everyone for mistakes, what will happen will be that group finder will become way more exclusive. In order to “help” the people that get screwed 1 out of 5 times with key depletes, you will ruin the system for the other 4 out of 5 times.
I think this is one of the most important lessons most online gamers never learn, IIRC the original quote was from ZeroX back in the Q3A ESL days…
If you assume others are always hte problem, you will never properly reflect on your own mistakes and what you could have done better. For example…
“Ohh, we died because the warlock didn´t soak the puddle”
So, you were standing there, saw it going down, and did nothing to avert the impending disaster? Then that´s your failure, too, end of discussion.
If your explanation for that is “I thought he was on top of it it and was going to move in on time”, it makes it a little bit better, because it means you trusted your teammates. But at the end of the day you too could have soaked it and failed to do so, and that´s why the raid wiped, because you both failed, not just the warlock 
It works up to a point. One thing is to cover for somebody due to a mistake or something but in any teamwork - everyone carries their own weight. If I got a DPS A who is taking every possible mechanic and DPS B to doesn’t even bother to move to a puddle which spawns next to him…
I won’t blame the DPS A who is juggling grenades while standing in hot coals to miss a puddle to force the “but muh parses” DPS B to actually do something as well…even if it risks or results in a wipe.
2 Likes
My opinion is m+ with key depletion/timed runs is terrible for the game, and causes unnecessary anger amongst the community.
That being said, it’s also an MMO and guilds do have their place in this genre. So if you really enjoy m+ in it’s current format, finding a guild is the best way of improving the experience and making that game mode more enjoyable.
I think delves have been a great addition to the game, and gives an alternative to players that prefer to play solo. They just need to dial it in to make it more challenging so gear progression at end game is a viable option as well.
Honestly its not just mythics that are toxic you should try pvp epic matches now those are toxic central. As for the mythics you ideally should run with freinds or guildies.
Pugs dont respect eachother bc they dont know eachother.
Now not all pugs are toxic but theres a huge chance your gnna get one that is and all it takes is one person with attitude and it can ruin your day.
I prefer to make my own grps and if anyone idc if its the tank or healer starts they reported blocked and kicked obv give warnings before i do so.
Everyone pays to play ifsofacto which means nobody has the right to ruin your runs.
Eventually these toxic ppl run out of ppl to play with bc we talk to eachother real id etc with i just ran into x player from x server hes toxic dont inv him and boom his choices get cut very fast the fact is as large as the wow community is ppl know eachother and as i said they talk.
Dont give up on wow cos if a few bad eggs just bang them on ignore and let others know who they are ok 
Better yet guild only runs are cool bc guilds usually know eachother enough to respect.
Well, yeah, but actually, no.
There’s a clear line at what is your and what your teammate’s responsibility.
By your standards, if your class is able to heal, then every single death around you is also your failure.
You could have just stopped and healed your teammate. Why are you trusting the healer to do their role?
And exactly this mindset of “not my problem, he’s the one that screwed up”, despite clearly being in a position to make it a non issue and being cognizant of it going down, is exactly why most pug raids get nowhere fast and why I refuse to run anything with PuGs. If you don´t want to contribute to your own success, then you donßt deserve that success.
To me it´s It´s just an ego driven, bullheaded unwillingness to adapt and cooperate in the spirit of teamwork and mutual success. IMHO nobody needs these people in their life, or their video games, because by not doing what hey can to help when they could they´re essentially always throwing, and thereby being a detriment to the rest of the team on purpose. I´d rather carry a crap player that´s actually at least trying, becaus ehe can at least still be taught to play better, wheras the other one has already peaked because their attitude is what´s holding them back and you can´t practice that away no matter how many hours you stand in front of a target dummy.
So by my standards, yes, absolutely, if for ex. the group dies to a big ae and the warrior didnt rally, thy mage didn´t mass barrier, the Evo didnt Zephyr, …or the tank dies because his partner made a mistake that killed him, and none of the melees had taunt in their bars so nobody could soak single hits from a simple skolex /Rashok 3-hit swap mechanic… then yes, they are 100% equally as much at fault as the healers /tanks. If you´re not willing to sacrifice your own DpS and if necessary die what would usually be an avoidable death, just to still give the rest of the raid a chance at killing the boss by preventing what would have otherwise been a wipe, then you don’t deserve to see it go down, because you´re still not even trying.
And having a full team with this mindset enables you to then do things like comfortably 1 heal Magmorax in a 20 man group by simply putting both rets, the Evo, the mage and the BDK on the side where the healer isn’t.
Working as a team means helping others in the team when they get in trouble, not just covering your own patootie so you can say it wasn´t your fault. If the latter were in fact the case, then we wouldn´t need healers in teh first place, because eeveryone knows DpS never make mistakes or take avoidable damage
Tbh. Another issue with your average pugs is that the “DPS meter decides all”. If a wipe happens. Who becomes the scapegoat? The player who did the less dps. Doesn’t matter that the said DPS was covering for the whole raid by triple soaking and etc.
“U do badZ dPZ u booSTeD KIIICK!”.
So people in an average pug group is more inclined to focus on dps purely because being high on dps grants you “diplomatic immunity”…by some pug leaders apparently.
3 Likes
This is true.
In my 7 years of WoW, my experience with PUGs has largely been fine. I don’t speak to anybody in chat. I dive in, get the raid or dungeon done and then dive out. No problems.