Why are you trying to play rated game without voice com? Your team members can’t read your mind.
i love playing with voice & comms but thing is 99% of LFG players either excuse: im just chilling or another excuse is “we’re only 2300 mmr we dont need voice here” well thats the reason also they dont join groups in LFG that ask for voice
100% agreed cant wait for retail tourist healers to play wotlk and get punished for every wrong step in arena
Don’t pug rated games. Find two real partners. I gave up on doing that because it felt like a second job and all weeks were wasted because in Cata they didn’t reset MMR before Season. It ruined it forever. Rating is worthless digital number. Nobody cares irl.
Healer buff and cc removing dots etc for holy priests. This has lost me lots of matches. Also the really bad matchmaking based on the completely useless cr system. Fighting people at 1770 cr feels just the same as at 1500 cr. Skill level is the same no matter what cr I play at. They play all the same groups and have the same ilvls. They all play like pros and the real 1500 cr guy you are with is destroyed. Positioning is fun too, the burst dps is so high if I dont stay in to open and heal players get deleted. Also if I do play the positioning game, other classes have so much cc and better mobility that its pointless. They can outrun me and heal themselves if they are too low. This means I get nailed in a position were the low cr player can be deleted before I can return to them.
CR = group rating but if you plug arena it has zero to do with how good you are. Thus there are people with lower skill at 1800 than there is at 1500. Hell 1500 is full of alts, ppl with mythic gear and pvp gear.
Also its completely unbalanced gameplay which is why there is meta groups everywhere. Healing is nerfed by 23% two seconds into the match (I have screenshots, some groups wait for the healing buff to increase before leaving stealth and attacking). You die with a 40%+ healing debuff.
You lose to crap dps players because you cant even heal yourself anymore. They do insane burst dps, your dps is crap as a healer and your healing dies over time. Thus you cant win. Being a healer sucks because you can’t carry and you need too.
Arena is crap. The rating system is not skill based. Abusing gear, meta is the way to get cr. Skill is a distant second. This is why many players with good old pvp gear well above cr 1500 play as if they would never be above 1000 cr yet have gear above 1800 cr from last season. Then there are players at cr 1500 who clearly should never be there, they are too skilled. Most lower CR players have poor gear and play at their CR but can’t match the clear bullcrap going on. I don’t expect blizzard to fix it. If they go for more burst dps and cc then lol. These are the two biggest issues. Some groups can cc one player for the whole match, starting from stealth. They can trinket all they want, they will be cc’ed and there is no skill too it.
Jesus, I wonder how one can be such clueless about the game. And then I found out you’re a warlock. Makes sense.
listen lil bro im not talking about 1500 experienced healers this post is about healers that have experience and mostly claim to be 2400+ & 2800 no offense but you dont have to push in open to heal anyone all you have to do is keep max range and avoid cc from enemy yes you will have to do CC with classes that don’t have it or cant do it but with warlock when you DR every kind of cc is it fear / coil or even a stun then yeah you better sit back and let the lock do it because he knows when they’re going to do damage & when is better to cc
and if someone is getting deleted its either their positioning or your bad healing/positioning or eating cc its in both ways positioning has huge impact in this game and i agree both healers & dps are doing mistakes a lot but mostly healers pushing on top of you because they’re scared that you will LOS them or something idk but yeah its big issue
oh and trust me lots of good healers can carry the game
about the gear in dragonflight there wont be upgrading needed so we will see about those 1500 cr players that excuse their cr for gear
is this some kind of insult or something? coming from a paLadin?
also how do you even manage to have 49% winrate as retri warrior in 3v3 thats beyond this world
this is intended because healers are too good for 2v2 - so as to not unnecessarily prolong games they implemented instant dampening.
You’ve completely misunderstood the nature of rating systems as a whole… It’s not meant to immediately divvy up players exactly where they belong from the moment they queue. No rating system in the world can do that. To quantify the ability of a player, it needs something to quantify first.
To go a little deeper, rating systems have a theoretical accuracy. The job of rating systems, as mentioned, is to quantify abilities of participants, relative to other participants. And the accuracy rate of a rating system, is typically accompanied in the math proof required to patent a rating system.
What that means, is that every person in the world have a rating that matches their ability exactly, even before they’ve ever participated in the system. But rating systems can’t quantify it before the person has participated. So the fun part about rating systems, is that they’ve got various ways to determine what a person’s ability is rated, and every rating system has a theoretical max capacity (which usually goes into the 99.xxxxx% decimals, although the Elo system only made it up to 98.something% iirc) in how close to that “true rating” the system can bring participants to.
In chess it’s relatively simple, you’ve got one player vs. another player, and that never changes in rated games. They both start with the same things, and so there was never any need for Árpád Élő to develop further accuracy than what can be determined from the win, loss or draw. So it’s pretty straightforward that way.
But it was a very long time since he created the Elo rating system, which was groundbreaking at the time. Since then, new rating systems for chess have been created (Glickman further developed the Elo system into what’s called the Glicko RD systems, he’s a senior lecturer on statistics at Harvard and a chess enthusiast) and also rating systems specific to games have been created, often using Elo or Glicko systems as base for their creations. Microsoft patented their own system for Xbox games, for example.
Rating systems are also responsible for matchmaking, so if you think the matchmaking is good in a game then the rating system is responsible for that. However game devs tend to throw in their own changes into the matchmaking parts so it better fits the game(s) it’s used for, but that’s a bit off tangent.
Anyway, so going back to how in chess everyone starts with the same stuff and it’s always 1on1 in rated matches, and the only difference is who moves first, it’s easier to quantify that. But in a game like WoW, where people don’t start with the same stuff, and they don’t have the same toolkits, it boils down to the essentials of rating systems.
A rating system is simply quantifying a person’s chance to win. In chess that’s only one’s own ability, but in WoW that includes gear, talent choices, ability to play, reaction speed, and it also includes TEAM-based rating.
So your ability to win when being matched in rated PvP in wow, includes your own ability combined with your team’s ability. There is no rated 1v1 in WoW. So if a team is rated 1500, it can have a player who’s a 3200 exp pro, together with someone who has never played WoW before or anything like it. Or it can simply be two 1500-players. And so on, there are plenty of possible variations.
Another thing to keep in mind, is that the accuracy of a rating system always increases the more you play. It starts with the lowest accuracy in your very first game, and the more you play the more that accuracy will increase. Your ability one day can also be greater or worse than the next day, so it’s never absolutely static.
Also, when you’re so close to where people tend to “pop out” of placement games, it means you’ll inherently face a wider variety of ability levels because some might be just starting out and just finished their placement games while on an upward trajectory, while others are hard stuck at 1500, causing a very mixed level of opponents that you’ll face at such low rating.
tl;dr:
It’s not the rating system’s fault. It’s working as intended.
Coming from a guy who hasn’t miraculously looted 1800 and 2400 within a week unlike you. And yes, sir, this proves you’re just a paid carry, otherwise you wouldn’t post such a nonsense reducing healer role to a pve heal bot.
1 Like
The rating system rates the team and not the player. It can’t do anything else. Its why everyone wants the best partner. Also gear ilvl is ignored from what I have seen. Players with ilvl 262 or so gear get players with gear close to 298 ilvl. Some good players should be higher but are going to be hard stuck at lower CR because of gear.
The rating system is not good, I can beat 1770 cr groups one moment then not be able to win against 1550 cr groups because they are better players.
Wrong. It’s explained in the wall of text which you probably didn’t read.
1 Like
There are more than one player in the team. Wins = rating increase. Its obvious that the team is rated and not individual players. Every factor that goes with the team makes up the cr. Basic logic and observation. Play with people that throw every match and your rating goes down. Now the game thinks you’re a lower cr because of losses but your skill is unchanged.
Your wall of text is non sense long before you wrote it. Its logically impossible for me to be wrong on this. More than one player in the team and the cr is for more than just player skill. Individual player skill is not being rated, its team success. Its blindly obivous. More successful teams have a higher cr. CR works if its a chess match, one player in each team and the set game. Here they could play black or white and it would be equal. The only big factor for seccess is player skill. This is observationally not the case with arena. Being an observation you can’t via arguement state it wrong. It clearly true logically as well. There are big factors other than player skill. Thus, you can have lower skill players at higher CR and higher skill players at lower CR.
Its like stating a foodball team has a high CR and thus every individual player has the same CR. It’s logically not true and take individual players out of the high cr team and make them play in a very low cr team and they get rated like the lower cr foodball team. You can’t carry very low skilled players or solo every match. If you can solo each match then that would tell you that factors other than skill are at work.
CR does not measure just individual skill, its an overall effect with many factors. CR equals skil is a hasty generalisation when looking at a small range of CR (skill levels will overlap between different ratings groups). There are more factors at work. The more players in the team, the less individual bad skill of one player is important. An army of millions is not bad because of one bad soldier. Conversely a bad army is not good by having one good soldier. I know this is the extreme ends but this does happen in teams. One good player and a decent one will lead to the lower CR player getting a higher cr but also the higher cr player losing matches and the team normalising at a lower overall CR.
Some classes are so overpowered and easy to play its a joke. Gear like from mythic raids etc. Having the best class mix and having stronger team is more important. Skill is clearly a lesser factor, if your ignore your own ego.
This is why there is statistically best gear choices and class setups for arena. Called meta. There are even websites that show what gear gives a higher cr rating and what class mix gives a higher cr rating. Some class will win no matter what another class does, just just have all the tools and just need a skill level that is sufficient. This would not be possible if SKILL was the main determining factor. Skill is a factor but not at the degree you think.
Everyone gets capped if they don’t do this. They wont progress to a higher cr no matter what they do skill wise. They will hit a brick wall. This is why some items in gear setups have a higher CR ceiling than others. Same with talents etc. Thus your teams class mix and your charatcor builds set a ceiling which is statistically significant outside of just player skill. Thus CR must be rating this as well.
That was true for the Elo system that WoW used in TBC, and only in TBC. In wotlk they swapped to the current system, although we still had teams iirc. And then in… was it MoP? Where they made it so you only had your personal rating and no team that’d limit who you could play with.
So what the current system and the removal of teams means for all this, is that you’re still shaping a statistic. Your ability to judge who you’re playing with is part of that statistic, meaning the rating system also judges your ability to pick partners. A player who always gets 3k, only playing with 2k people one season, will naturally not reach 3k that season. But if the player only plays with fellow 3k players, the odds are they’ll reach 3k again.
So what’s judged there is still the fundamental “chance to win”. But it also includes your ability to judge other people, and to fit into the meta.
For example, if you’d play with a different player every single match, it’s not their ability that’ll form a statistic. It’s only your own.
Which is why ^ is fundamentally mistaken. You’ve misunderstood the very nature of rating systems.
What I state can be proven but is so obvious whats the point? You can’t accept the truth.
If you play in a team with someone else, the rating is for both of you playing together. With all the factors that go with that. The class, specs and talents. The gear etc. Skill is apart of it but the other factors are statistically significant. They are proven to affect the outcome of the match above skill of the players.
Then there are the classes. Lets take healers win rate, this covers all skill levels.
Now if I went meta. Unique players: 10130
Win rate
Restoration Shaman 1.32
Mistweaver Monk 1.32
Restoration Druid 1.31
Holy Paladin 1.30
Discipline Priest 1.27
Holy Priest 1.25
Lets look at score
Discipline Priest 103
Restoration Shaman 85
Restoration Druid 59
Holy Priest 50
Holy Paladin 26
Mistweaver Monk 24
Just by picking a holy priest reduces my win rate and my score.
Tiers
- Discipline Priest (S-Tier)
- Restoration Druid (S-Tier)
- Restoration Shaman (S-Tier)
- Holy Priest (A-Tier)
- Holy Paladin (A-Tier)
- Mistweaver Monk (B-Tier)
See how this follows the score? One class is better than all the others. Disc better on average than holy.
This is why players match the best classes before they go into the arena.
Thus for holy priest I should go for the following in arena for the best possible score.
Possible arena compositions
Holy Priest / Feral Druid / Hunter
Holy Priest / Rogue / Mage
Holy Priest / Frost Mage / Destruction Warlock
Holy Priest / Warrior / Warlock
What kills teams with holy priests.
Holy Priests struggle if they cannot find the opportunity to cast. They have a cooldown recovery mechanic where the more spells you can cast such as Smite or Flash Heal - the more uses of your strongest spells such as your stun you have. This can mean that Holy Priests need to position correctly and cast often or they will find themselves unable to keep their teammates alive.
What is better about disc.
Overall, Discipline Priest is a great healer for beginners and veterans alike, and also lets you deal more damage than any other healer, making it fun to play and feel you are contributing to kills.
This is why I focused on dps with holy, to see if I could affect the match more via dps but this has drawbacks. Also goes against what statistics say I should do but if I went disc, then I should do better.
The CR rating is the performance of the team and not a way of ranking the individual player.
Having a real issue with the healing debuff. Some matches I start with a -23% healing debuff right at the begining and it hammers me the whole match. Sometimes it gets very high into the >40% range.
sir you got s2 glad and currently have 1700 rating and 49% winrate please stop right there 
also if you played wotlk & real pvp you will know how healers should play and you wouldn’t call it pve heal bot literally most healers nowdays are out of position and focused on doing damage and letting their mates die or themselves die/get ccd because they prioritize DAMAGE over healing or good positioning you clearly dont watch top rated healers otherwise you wouldnt call pve healbot to a good position but how you would know u got 2.5 in a s2 with ret/war/rsham and shaman was probably rolling all over you guys with all that pet damage & groundings and barely keep duelist since then its very poggers im really happy for you
Healers have to compete with dps classes that are clearly broken. This video shows how class mix affects the matches outcome and why just one single players skill is not the overall factor rated by CR.
1 Like
Wotlk isn’t real pvp though
2 Likes
You will make memberberry addicts angry 
1 Like
Holy priest can do a lot of burst damage if they pull it off correctly. I have won a lot of matches by getting in there and dps’ing at the right moment.
1 Like
tell me brother, why 75% of dps players until around 1.8k dont even try to peel or cc when im getting stomped as a disc by ww +ret( as example) even tough i insta fear and press defensives? just to die 1 sec later :))