It really shows how much of a misstep the m+ changes were, even if a particularly vocal minority loves them
m+ has gotten more and more difficult and the community and thus gotten more toxic.
My opinion is we should go back to seasonal affixes, but just dont make them be as thundering in S1 DF as it gave us a power boost of 5-11% if we did it optimal.
Instead go for affixes such as those in SL.
Even though SL was not that good, its m+ was AMAZING! (except for some of the rotating affixes such as necrotic. that stuff ruined tank meta)
Raiding feel like it has no place anymore, it gives way to weak gear compared to m+, and this has been a core issue for many years. But i personally feel it hardest here in TWW, as m+ also has gotten a large nerf.
We also still dont have 10 mythic raiding which is absurd if you ask me.
EVERY single season my guild has a good start with a solid 20-25 on heroic and as soon we get AOTC we lose 15-20 people, making mythic not an option we are able to progress as recruitment useally slow down at later stages on the seasons.
Delvs are a boring and flawed endgame content.
It feel slow and long and painful just to fill the vault with 8 lvl delvs, i would rather go back to torghast as at least there if i got good rng i would stomp the floors and be able to have SOME fun at the end.
Crafting is still very gated towards new people who want to try and make a foothold on the market, the fact we dont have some sort of way of posting your services on crafting order menus is just bad.
I understand some people like the trade chat and how you need to “snipe” buyers, but i just find it to be a hassle and feel like its a full time job. I want to be able to do world content, m+ and raiding while at the same time get request from players randomly for crafts that i can do.
Everything considered, TWW is currently on 4/10 for me with everything included.
I personally feel like the devs are sitting on thier backs and not reacting to how the community feel and how it looks like. They literally take the “Takes 4-10 busniness days to respond” too serious.
3 Likes
they probably will .it will be easy money for them . now if housing doesnot satisfy some people .then almost 9 out of 10 threads will be about how they were ripped off and blizzard is not giving them refund 
they should be nerfed a little bit yep.
it does get boring after a while and with bran not helping that much it becomes torture .
I don’t like the zones (look). The delve is boring, the mythic pool is terrible.
They can’t add completely new instas every season, but rather renew things that are 20 years old.
Because of the warband, you have to use more characters to get the reward in the same amount of time as before the warband…
2 Likes
For me it’s the m+ scaling after +11
It was a good idea to squish 2-20 down. But anything over a +11 is a nightmare for pugs. That’s why you don’t see many keys imo around +12 in lfg
A +11 is an old +22
A +12 is an old +25 maybe slightly higher with affixes. It’s just ridiculous that jump.
3 key jump from old seasons instead of 1. It’s infuriating to try and pug I just give up now. I’m gutted that I don’t wanna play this season anymore I have well and truly spat my dummy out.
I just think the game is trash now. I have always stated that M+ is bad for the game. Its killed raiding and now delves have killed pretty much both of them at the same time.
The game is so focused on getting as high ilvl as possible its taken the fun out of end content. And what is the point of achieving higher ilvl when it gets replaced in a few months anyway?
Housing is just going to turn into a cash shop, anyone who can’t see that are deluded. There is just no fun in the game anymore.
I am subbed because I am playing HC atm, but if and when that character dies, I don’t know when I will be back. There’s very little left for me to enjoy in retail anymore.
3 Likes
To continue my previous post; As someone with close to 619 ilvl on 3 80’s (so delves are soon a no-go) and maxed out TWW-reputations, what is there actually for me to do in-game other than the odd weekly? Heck, what is there to do in general?
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Normal/Heroic Raiding feels very unrewarding compared to other endgame content, plus I find the current raid extremely boring. Mythic is out of the question, lifesituation doesn’t really allow for it even if I should want to.
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M+ is so much of a mess in TWW that with the exception of a few 0+ early on, I have actively avoided it. The m+ community is so toxic that Blizzard have started banning players, the dungeonpool is boring (Blizzard, we just had a new expansion launch, why the F aren’t all of the new dungeons in the pool??) and the affixes are a pain. I used to like M+ in Legion and BfA (didn’t play WoW during SL and DF) but in TWW it’s been content thats been DoA.
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(Crafting)professions are a boring, convoluted mess, full of traps and dead ends. Selling crafted items via the order-system is also a nightmare for reasons that has already been stated by others.
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WQs are a sad, unrewarding joke of a game mechanic. I could write a long post about the sad state of WQs in TWW but whats the point? 99% of the playerbase will know what I mean anyway.
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PvP? I’ve done my fair share of PvPing over the years (Rank 10 in oldschool vanilla, /flex), but currently its’ an unbalanced mess. Hard pass.
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Normal Quests? Thats funny. Once upon a time, I enjoyed having a big backlog of remaining quests to do after hitting max level, it was the perfect “I’ll do it on a rainy day when I’m bored”-type of content, but given that a completed quest basically rewards the equivalent of 10% of 1 deaths repairbill (~12G - at max lvl, in 2024!), we might have to re-define the meaning of “unrewarding” and “pointless”…
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Farm? Farm what? What for? I don’t “need” anything that the game allows for me to farm, and the only things I would actually want to farm if I could (mats to create ilvl 620+ items) is literally gated, locked behind bars, permanently out of reach. TWW has completely prevented me from being able to set my eyes on something and allow me to go “alright, I want that, I’m gonna get it, even if I’ll have to farm for weeks!” - and for a MMORPG this is a major sin.
So what does this leave for “content”?
Collecting (pets, TW-badges, toys, mounts, achievments, etc) and leveling alts - so basically old content from previous expansions and nothing thats relevant to TWW at all.
TWW started off pretty strong…
- The story was decent enough - until it just sort of stopped.
- Warband/Delves made for a really good casual solo-experience - until you hit the hard progression-wall that is ilvl 619).
- Weeklies, coffer keys and vault made for enjoyable repeatable content - until you realize that you’ve “only” been playing for ~2 months and already lack incentive to do them anymore.
- Khaz Algar itself was pretty - but is also waaay to small for a new expansion area. 4 zones, who are all rather small, is way too little.
…but now the cracks haven’t just started to show, the entire facade is falling off. And we’re only 3 months into the expansion.
I really enjoyed the first 1-2 months in this expansion (and the 20th anniversary-stuff certainly helped - can you imagine TWW without the content the anniversary brought? Yikes!), but I’m not sure if I’ve ever gone from “This is fun, I have so much I want to do” to “This is so boring, I have nothing to do” so quickly in an expansion ever before (mind you, I didn’t play SL or DF at all).
I honestly have no idea how Blizzard will save TWW, or if they even can. I don’t think just adding a new raid, or a new zone, or more tiers to M+/Delves in a future contentpatch will solve anything, especially if it’s more than 3 months down the line.
There are just so many “sub-systems” (for lack of a better word) in TWW right now that needs a complete overhaul, and without it, 1-2 months into the next content patch, the same feelings of “what do I do now?” will re-emerge in the playerbase, and people will quit (again), and every time it happens, less people will come back for the next content patch…
6 Likes
I literally just play retail to improve at the game and then I go back to classic which is just miles better
2/3 weeks of a new season is all I can stomach before I eyeroll my way outta this mess of an “MMO”
The instanced pve content is very well designed and very challenging, but everything else is trash. The gearing system is utter trash. The visuals, story and atmosphere are cartoon trash. It’s just a trash game with great mechanics, that’s it.
The first 4 were added in 7.3.5 irrelevant of whether you bought the epic edition or not. The rest were added later all at the same time again irrelevant of money
1 Like
For me the main thing is the plateau you name at 600ish ilvl and technical issues (lag / disconnects).
Delves / account shared progress / transmog is the real savior so far.
Enjoying the game a lot right not, currently progressing mythic princess. Think your raids that quit due to early access were just looking for a reason to quit
1 Like
Because blizzard stole not once but twice from me/many others millions of gold then proceeded to shrug their shoulders then completely ignore the issue from then on! Oh and the game is also a bug filled mess/balancing is a joke
1 Like
Why am I not enjoying the War Within?
I’m going to compare it to two other RPGs I’m currently playing: Genshin Impact and Wuthering Waves.
First before I 
on World of Warcraft, let me send some compliments its way.
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It has the best Classes/Specs in terms of their complexity.
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Customization is top-notch.
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I don’t encounter any toxicity in Genshin Impact or Wuthering Wave, comma, however, I do in World of Warcraft (and most of you won’t be able to comprehend this but toxicity is what drives gaming so WoW having lots of it is a plus).
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The Design Team — they always do a brilliant job — the environment is always easy on the eyes and matches the overall theme of the expansion (Shadowlands was some of their best work in my opinion).
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What else — can’t really think of anything — wait subscriptions — they are a plus or at the very least a tie with Genshin and Wuthering Wave business model.
Now to on it.
- No viable path forward (Mythic Gear) for solo players (Delves
). - Not being able to queue for any instance, regardless of difficulty.
- Complexity of classes/specs aside, with the combat in World of Warcraft there is a lot left to be desired, especially when compared to Wuthering Wave.
- The best live service game I’ve ever played is Genshin Impact, they are constantly trying to find ways for you to have fun playing their game, whereas, in World of Warcraft, it’s all about retention mechanics: do this thing X amount of times and we will give you this mount.
- Storytelling; I barely know what the War Within is about, this is not an indictment of the story but of how it is being communicated to players — I swear it feels like Genshin Impact has 30-minute cutscenes, and every 10-minute of gameplay you have one of them.
- Players should be able to just teleport to nodes in different zones but can’t if it is in the same zone instead of wasting 3-4 minutes flying from zone to zone.
- The Crafting System sucks, throw Work Orders in there too.
- Having a few different abilities in PvP than you do in PvE doesn’t help with cross-migration, throwing different types of gear for each in there as well, doesn’t help with cross-migration.
Could keep going…
maybe this game isnt for you anymore,move on.
There is no war.
2 Likes
First let me tell you what I love about TWW:
- Early Access was awesome.
- The leveling experience was awesome.
- The way the story flowed and was presented was the best ever (not talking about the actual storylines here).
- Delves are a gamechanger when it comes to solo endgame.
Why I’m not really enjoying myself much nowadays:
- Lack of stuff to do. With delves I got a big boost in ilvl in the first 2-3 weeks and now it’s slowed down to a crawl; literally just waiting on 3 coins every week for 45 crests. Yes, I could run lots and lots of delves, for 2 crests per run, but at this point in the season I really don’t want to do that.
- I think making the 20th celebration the whole patch was a mistake. TWW’s story has all but disappeared for a tiny little bit of lore dump every 2 weeks. There’s not that much to it and I haven’t engaged with any of it for weeks now - with one exception:
- The secret finding. It was fun, at first. But it’s WAY over the top. It stopped being fun, so I stopped doing it.
- The lore dump quest every 2 weeks. It sucks. It’s a horrible way to experience lore and story. It’s boring and cheap.
Basically I’m playing the game exactly the same as I did in DF near the end of the expansion. Do some stuff on reset day: Then wait.
It’s boring. The game needs new, actually interesting and rewarding, content.
Fast patches are only so good as its content and the first minor patch of this expansion was a let-down for me, honestly.
We’ll have the next minor patch soon. Hopefully the new island will be fun for a bit, but the only thing to do there in regards to gearing is get the ring. The ilvls rewarded there are horrible.
Sure, there’s transmog stuff to be earned, and yes, that’s something. But it’s not enough. I want progression. I want power growth.
4 Likes
warbands is a huge improvement for me, i can now focus on my favourite chars over all my realms rather than work professions for my mains on all, that was a drag, they’ve made a number of changes i quite like, but it still lacks depth, and so too do my bags still i mean, come on, what the heck is all this junk?, what does this thing do?, what are these mats for?.
that’s rpg stuff and prg stuff is niche, it doesn’t make them “so happy we can hardly count”, that was old WoW, this is profitable pokemonwow.
in short it’s not TWW i’m not enjoying, it’s corporate gaming, i can’t think of any franchise on any platform that wasn’t better when it was ours not theirs.
2 Likes
Couldn’t agree more. Well put.
1 Like
It’s not that I don’t enjoy the war within. Its that I don’t care. That and that i have way bigger issues irl right now than xala’that 
But idk… Its hard to explain, But wow has changed. We’re not getting the same content I am used too anymore. And wow just feels like the same game with new m+ and raids every expansion.
We’re not getting stuff like Mechagon visions and warfronts… Island expeditions. …Nazjatar. Khortia zereth mortis. All that stuff. Amirdrassil in df (the emeral dream) Came no where near to interest me as these above did. And we just got so much more before in my opinion? Like Bfa was -packed- with stuff to do and play.
And now its just the same. The war within feels like Dragonflight+ But underground.
Idk… I miss when blizzard made lots of cool content over a longer waiting time with quality. Instead of worrying about dishing out content faster and faster.
Personally im not a huge fan of the difficulty spikes with each passing tier, if your a high end player it’s fine but everyone else kinda struggles. I could probably raid mythic but i have zero interest in it, you used to be able to join a curve guild be done in a couple weeks and then just clear for fun but recently its just “you don’t want to progress mythic for 3 months so we’ve made it so most guilds will be progressing heroic for 3 months”
Then they made the game more grindy, I dont mind grinds but when its for stuff that’ll be gone at the end of the tier it’s starts being unfun. People say it feels like their time isn’t being respected and thats not a game philosophy devs should stick to.
Not to mention the massive decline in quality control, feels like every week theres a new bug.