Why Aren't YOU Enjoying the War Within?

I don’t enjoy it because there is no epic feeling solo content.

I want to follow a big story line without it being gated behind raids, or having to do easy content with subpar/useless gear as a reward.

Due to my work I cant commit to a fixed schedule and raid with a guild.

Delves are a cool idea, but repetitive, and have no real story line and don’t have the best items.

Rated PvP is fun to an extent, but the toxic encounters you come across daily absolutely ruin it. Also after a while it is repetitive and can be slightly stressful.

Epic items no longer feel epic, they’re actually extremely common. Getting new items doesn’t have anywhere near the sense of excitement as it used to be.

No story is gated behind raids.

A post that asks for people to whinge will only ever lead to walls of text. So no apologies for this one.

The corporate greed has really put a sour taste on wow for me. The way gold is manipulated to sell tokens is just shameful on a game where subs are paid, and the copy of the game also had to be paid for. I have a 2 subs until Feb next year and my resub is very unlikely.

The paid early access was galling. yet more corporate greed. Even if I do resub, I will make sure I do not have a sub for the release of the next expansion. I was paying a sub this time around for content I could not access without paying a premium, which I had no interest in doing. Aside from this the game has many flaws atm. Some of which are just more pushes to sell gold, some are just pure lazy coding without actually understanding the effects on the game.

Professions, I absolutely refuse to engage with. I have zero interest in a month by month grind, nor do I have any interest in buying the gold to fund them or spending days farming mats for them.

The scaling for levelling is terrible. This does not affect me in the slightest as any alts I have still have 500+ ilvl from DF. But it does not bode well for refilling the game with players who leave. It amazes me how long this has gone on for now. Levelling is the introduction to the game.

The rewards from Dungeons, M+ and raids are terrible. Each level seems to hit a wall of grief before you can move onto the next one. I skip M+ pugs altogether now. People are just too stressed doing them. I come for entertainment. Listening to whines, moans and finger pointing is just not entertaining. Take the depletion system away and get rid of the time element. There is no depletion in pvp, raids or delves. Why push one onto the Mythic community.

Blizzard uses early adoption as a carrot and stick approach to players on catch up. Players who complete activities later get watered down rewards. This is very obvious if you play many alts. It was the same in DF imo. This seems to be a company policy. Use players to show what can be done, but make it harder over time.

The constant stealth changes were annoying. Although they have settled as late, seeing things not work as they did the previous day was frustrating. The amount of class changes and the severity of the changes were even more frustrating.

Bugs were massively prevalent for far too long. You have to question what the beta access was about.

Probably the thing that annoyed me more than anything, was having a single person with a vested interest in the way the game is played, push a nerf on the DH buff before the release. Blizzard panders far too much to the streamers. If you really want to know what players think then actually read your own forums.

Which leads to my final whinge. Get a customer service again. This AI approach to solving issues may save a few pounds, but it really frustrates players. The way some players that I knew received a ban because of bad coding was wrong on many levels. Players need a contact point to resolve issues quickly. Giving players a 3 day, and then making them wait 5 days to escalate the issue high enough to talk to a human being makes you wonder why you are paying so much for the game.

3 Likes

The mere fact that it´s viewed as Binary to either be not enjoying it or to percieve it as “perfect” is reason enough to not humor the thread with a qualified response beyond “I disagree on numerous points”.

Because that alone already means I must view the game as perfect in the eyes of the OP, so why waste teh effort to elaborate further when the response will inevitably nothing more than a be a hyperbolic and close-minded “How can you possibly (x)”… Nah, Been there, done that, next please. :beers:

If what I heard is correct, there are very few people on the Classic team, so I wouldn’t blame Classic as the main cause for retail’s downgrade.

Blizzard isn’t buffing the classes i enjoy to play
instead they buff mage while hunter and warlock are suffering

Overall my impression of this expansion is very positive. I think there are a few areas with opportunities for improvement, and one area in particular that I think is actually bad.

First the good things so they don’t get lost: I like the story, I like the new zones, I enjoyed the raid a lot. Every spec I’ve played has been the best version of itself I’ve seen.

Now, onto areas of improvement.

Delves

I really like the concept of delves. It’s the first iteration, so I wouldn’t expect them to be perfect.

I raid regularly in a heroic guild, and that gives me 6 hours of social WoW time per week. I can’t dedicate much more time than that to doing structured group content in a week, and pugging M+ is a famously awful. Ridiculously long wait times, high failure rates, high chance of encountering toxic people. Delves are in theory a great way to play some challenging content, but avoiding a lot of that pain. I’ve enjoyed calmly getting a lot of my alts full heroic gear just from solo content. It’s also a great way to pick up new specs without having to immediately go and perform for a group.

Where I think they could improve is really just the quality of the individual delves. We have lots of delves, but it feels a lot more like 4 delves in terms of flavour. They are poorly balanced at the moment - I could do higher delves on my 560 tank than I could on my 610 DPS. Some of the challenges/puzzles are a little bit tedious I find.

But my main criticism would be a lack of top-end skill expression. Players again and again express positive feedback for the mage tower and for visions of nzoth. These were things that could be very challenging or very easy depending on your character progression. They were something you could work towards as a solo player with rewards that helped you stay motivated in the face of failure. Delves don’t feel like that - they feel like a pretty free way to get good loot, which is arbitrarily capped at tier 8.

I really think visions of nzoth were the best solo thing they’ve ever released in this game. It was hard, but not because all the mobs did tons of damage and had tons of health. And it wasn’t hard like M+, because you have infinite casters to kick and mechanics to manage. It was hard because it was unforgiving - the correct plays were clear and very achievable, but it didn’t give you room for mistakes. I think that’s a pretty good angle to approach difficulty from.

Open world

The open world is beautiful. I like it a lot. All the zones are full of flavour and feel great. However, I do find there’s just nothing that compelling there to draw my attention after the leveling process, which these days is very short. This is a really tough one because it goes back a long way and isn’t specific to this expansion, but I think this one has the best shot to address it.

I think the little titan discs that are scattered around the world are a really nice touch, and I think they need to do way more of that kind of thing. There should be reasons to spend time in the world, exploring it. Reasons to get off your mount and have a careful look around. Dangerous enemies that make you wonder what they’re protecting. Precious treasures or mounts that spawn at random locations and times. Little lore Easter eggs scattered around the place. Things that make it feel worth your while to spend time in the world just looking around. World quests that give you 300g or some explorer gear just don’t stay interesting to anyone for very long.

Professions

Another system that I think has improved a lot but has had a few issues. I think the concentration system has had some strengths - it means that all the profits aren’t just swallowed up by a small number of ultra-optimised people. At the same time though… It kind of means there isn’t really much profit to be found in any high quality items. Most of the crafting profits made in this expansion have been from people churning out huge numbers of low quality items at tiny margins, I’d wager. If you take the more satisfying route of optimising a character for making high quality consumables say, you quickly find that you’re basically slightly more profitable than someone who just picked up the profession yesterday, because the only thing that is really valuable is concentration. Being able to craft rank 3 flasks is not really worth much, it’s effectively just a concentration discount. You lose money if you craft these items without concentration, even if you are completely optimised for the task. Perhaps it will change once gatherers are all fully optimised to find rank 3 resources, but it seems doubtful, and it would still be pretty weird.

I’m not sure what the solution is, but I don’t think that’s an ideal place for professions to be. It removes all the roleplaying fun of getting really good at a particular part of a profession (the stated goal of the new system) and instead incentivises creating loads of poorly optimised, faceless concentration alts.

Gearing

Finally, there is one area of the game at the moment that I think doesn’t just need to be improved, but actually overhauled. It actively puts me off of playing the game. And that’s the gear reward systems.

As other people in thread have said, this season has been pretty awful for gearing. You can pretty much get a character to full champion or full heroic gear in a week or two, depending how hard to try. However if you want to max out your heroic gear or push for mythic gear, it’s then an endless slog dependent heavily on luck. The only way around this is to do mythic raiding, which is just not on the cards for most people.

I know some people will say “well why do you need mythic gear if you’re not doing the mythic raid?”. It’s a fair point. But I’ll say because it feels bad in a fantasy role playing game to have your fantasy character’s power limited by real-world logistical constraints, like finding 19 other good players with a compatible raiding schedule. It’s a real downer. Conversely, it feels great when your character is really powerful, and “completed”. Why does anyone else have an opinion about how good my gear should be allowed to get?

I’ve accepted that with my level of dedication to the game and my complete lack of desire to pug M+, my characters are effectively capped at 620 or so - basically full hero gear upgraded up to the runed crest cap. What few gilded crests I get from the last two raid bosses, I’ll put into getting 636 crafted gear. It just feels needlessly ungenerous. There is also absolutely no reason for the valorstone system to exist, in my opinion. It’s just another tax the player has to pay to do what they want.

On the journey to my effective cap of 620, my characters will first rocket to 603 or whatever it is from tier 8 delves. Then I might have some luck from the heroic raid and get some runed crest crafted gear from renown. So maybe I’ll be at around 610 in the first two weeks after hitting 80. Then it’s a slow slog of waiting for vault slots to come in and hope for some luck.

I suspect the purpose of “nerfing” the tail end of gearing is to keep people playing longer because they rely on the vault, but ironically every person I know has basically just stopped playing because it’s not fun to do a bunch of content to see if the reward you get happens to be something you want a week later. Don’t get me wrong, vault day can be a great dopamine hit, especially if you’ve got a whole warband of characters opening juicy vaults. But there needs to be more upfront reward as well - the vault should be more of a bonus in my opinion.

This all feels especially bad considering this is the most alt-friendly expansion ever. For me the gearing experience would be perfect if it took around 1 month to get a character to, say 630, with some final slots to fill in or upgrade over the rest of the season. The way I would play that would be to get my main to 630, then put him on the backburner and fire up my first alt, and work on getting him to 630, and so on for 4 or 5 characters. That loop would probably keep me interested and invested for the whole season. Instead, I played for a month, got my main to 620ish, then got a few alts to 610, realised I’d basically just be doing a bunch of work to play vault roulette once per week, looked around and realised there wasn’t much else to do (profession markets all degenerate, no mage tower, etc.) and just basically stopped playing.

Tl;dr: I think this expansion is really, really good. But there a few unfortunate mis-steps that I think are a real problem. If they can correct those for the next season that would be amazing - then I think they just have to iterate on the already great work they’ve been doing for the next expansion to bring the game to heights it’s never reached before. I’m very hopeful for the future but they really need to look the gearing/vault situation carefully and open up the top end of skill expression for more casual and solo players, like they’ve done in the past with visions of nzoth and mage tower.

Im not enjoying tww bc i am enjoying classic rn.

Im sure ill return to modern azeroth at some point then ill enjoy that version of wow.

I’ve played Legion and BfA and enjoyed them a lot, but didn’t even try SL and DF, just wasn’t in the mood when they were current.
There’s just nothing I want to do in TWW. I’m a really casual player. I’m very mid at wow’s gameplay and I don’t care to get better. I also don’t really like doing the same thing a lot, I prefer switching activities.

So:

  • M+ and raids aren’t for me, don’t want to improve skills enough.
  • Lower level dungeons/lfr raids habe 0 rewards
  • I got tired of delves after, like 3 repeated runs. It doesn’t help that whenever I’m in the mood for a delve, the bountiful ones are always the same I’ve already cleared, and the couple I’ve never been too are never up for me.
  • WQs. I swear they have 5 times less variety than BFA did. It’s like getting the turtles to the water, but with every faction instead of just one. Also, rewards are not in any way exciting. 40 valorstones? I’m not lifting a finger for that. Also, I preferred emissaries to the “special WQ” system, felt more like working towards a goal.
  • The gear progress annoys me. Getting an item felt good, even if it was just a couple of ilvls above current. Runestones and gear tiers felt overwhelming at first, and busywork now that I do understand them.
  • Not strictly TWWs fault, but with alts being so easy in TWW, feels stupid when I want something in older content, and the sharing isn’t there. Like, I want to get class hall gear for each toon, but full set requires Exalted Nightfallen rep each? Goddammit.
  • I liked Pathfinder achievement, was a worthy goal for me. The map is now too big to try to stop and smell the roses, but zooming on a mount everywhere feels like I don’t connect with the zones at all
  • Just let me level to 80 in chromie time, ffs, I don’t want to run the campaign a third time and I’ve never seen a lot of storylines.
  • I also miss ease of transportation. In BfA, main hearthstone was in Boralus, Legion and WoD had their own, easy access to 3 latest expansions. I now find myself completing collections in same Legion and WoD as 5 years ago, cause getting to SL and DF needs me to route through 3 portals at least
  • Too much stuff in the bags. I’m tired of inventory management, and every expansion just adds 25 more ingredients, now x3 with qualities. Then there’s equipment upgrade tokens for expac, random lore items, multipart treasures.

Yeah, I’m not having a really good time, but I am kinda caught in “just gonna finish collecting one more thing from Wotlk before unsubbing”.

Blizzard destroyed my spec (Holy) to the ground then I cant push m+

I m not enjoying tww, m+ is my main content and I love holy priest.

Blizzard avoid me to play the game I pay

I m not enjoying tww and think about unsub

3 Likes

Bar the xalatath affixes it just feel like m+ is in its worst state to date. They made things needlessly punishing to screw over casual players. Also queen is one of the least fun bosses I’ve progressed on heroic. Honestly second only to nzoth.

1 Like

I´m truly curious, as I hear this statement a lot outside of my guild, but nobody seems to be able to quantify what it is they don´t like about the fight… Which is Ok, I guess, everyone has different tastes, but it feels like many are saying “I don´t like chocolate” but not being able to say because it´s too sweet /tangy /smooth /brown, which feels a bit wrong to me.

I personally find the difficulty close to otimal for a heroic final boss… not a Raszageth- or Anduin-esque binary mechanic 100+wipefest, but not a 10 try Pushover like Sarkareth or Fyrakk, either… prog 1-2 nights and then it´s over. OFC as usual none of the mechanics are truly “new”, but they´ve been incorporated in IMO interesting ways, and also partly lead into each other… for ex. the “hop over the venom nova” bubble mechanic and then the similar portal mechanic in phase 3. :beers:

Imo it feels like a fight where one mistake by anyone equals a wipe.

2 Likes

I’m pretty much done, it’s boring, playing Classic on the anniversary realms for now

1 Like

I tend to disagree, esp compared to fights like Anduin, but I understand how one could come to that conclusion, esp when people have coordination problems in Ph 1. TYVM for the insight :beers:

Honestly i’ve probably played this launch patch more hours than i did in dragonflight, leveled more alts, done more stuff in general, it’s a great expac, all i wish is that future balancing or at least the difference in spec throughput was looked at more, been trying to do some M+ on my monk which is my absolute favorite tank in the game, and once i hit like 2200 ish rating it’s just a brick wall, total dead stop, no one invites you anymore, because with the super punishing tank nerfs and the challengers peril debuff only prot paladin is viable, so no one takes you/joins your group

very frustrating experience being soft locked out of pushing harder

one could argue that yeah i already got the mount, so who cares, but it is a customer lost in a sense when you stop playing not because you got bored but because you can’t push any further because you can’t find people to play with, kind of like the shuffle queue times or whatever

I agree with your general points about the game. The raid ran terribly until i upgraded to a new PC last month and now i’m on max settings 60fps heaven. But, i agree based on my old PC. The optimisation was terrible. Seems like wave like effects are the biggest offenders.

WARNING LONG POST AHEAD SORRY…

Yes this might be true but Why??

People will ALWAYS complain about something but this idea of Lets limit crests and how fast people can gear is ridiculous because some people jumped into Gilded Crests in week 1 and others had to do the crest progression.

Stop with all the hand holding and let the players take accountability for their actions, If i go to Subway and order a foot long and eat it all in 1 go is that Subways fault or my own ??

If the player decides to consume all the content super fast then it is their own fault that there is not enough content to keep them entertained, Blizzard need to tell the playerbase “You rushed through it all, So that is your fault not ours”

Bit like a video i saw of someone telling a game dev “Your game has no story??” but the player skipped all the dialog boxes…

Back to topic :

- Crest/Valorstone Limits / Nontransferable between alts.
This just creates a role shortage as someone who plays a tank and healer I am not signing to keys for 0 reward (5 Gilded Crests is not worth my time ( I always assume key will be failed as worst case scenario.))

-M+ Difficulty Scaling / Crest Rewards
The scaling on M+ is off I believe an 8 with a 15s penalty for death (+ runback time) is too harsh and just creates this situation where if your group is not performing adequately well then you end up spending way more time than needed and almost guarantees a key out of time and 5 crests is too little. This penalty should kick in at 10,s this would give people in the 8-10 bracket more chancees to succeed at 8,s. With the banning of toxic players in M+ all this does is create an already thinning player pool even thinner… People are only toxic when they feel their time is being wasted or they get punished for depletion, So fix this and stop key depletion and give the players a decent crest reward or sometthing for failing keys…

-End of M+ Dungeon Loot.
The M+ end loot is dreadful once you reach 620 the game has basically turned into a crest farm because there is 0 loot for you at the end of a M+ so what incentive do these players who run / sign for keys is there?? and then we return to the crest limitations which prevent you from getting all your items maxxed which returns to a once a week gamble on the vault.

-Professions
The profession system is supposed ot be a way for players to craft items for other people but the reality of the system is hardly no one wants R1-2 of X items and want only R3 , I do like the system of "You can specialize in one field IE… Resources, or specific areas with the exception of a few (Example I can make Long Blades but I do not know how to make a Short one??, And why do I need to specialise in every single armour slot as a tailor?? ), Recipes being locked behind Rep is “ok” I guess because I do not farm rep that is my own fault and Blizzard should not account for that but maybe an alternative method could be good.

-Delves.
Delves were good and interesting at the start but now all they are is for easy gear alts (til 616 then we enter the Gilded Crest farm territory), Gilded crests should be rewarded from Delves 8+ with a additive per tier level (Same application for keys 10+)

Suggested Improvement / QOL
M+
In Time Keys should reward 15 Crests (1 item upgrade for a successful run seems fair)

Depleted Keys should not reduce in level allowing the player to try again (No one likes to ttry and keyclimb from 7 back to 8 then back to 7 back to 8 etc…yoyo-ing a key), Maybe could be tied to a Gold Cost to return your key tto its original level (Blizz love their gold sinks after all)

Crests/Valorstones ARE transferable between warbound characters.

15s Death Penalty kicks in at 10,s

M+ Loot Chest should drop / has a chance to drop mythic at level 10 and 100% drops it at level 12 (This will give people the choice “Do i farm 8-10,s for crests to go mythic gear via upgrade system or do I try push to 12,s for them??”.

Professions -
Remove the quality system its unneccesary bloat to the professions.
Make logical crafting trees (IE… If im a Blacksmith I can create “Swords” not long or short swords this makes no sense, For tailors you could add a new crafting system for boots like a Cobbler.)

Delves
Delves should reward Gilded Crests for +8 and above (Maybe 3 per delve due to if it,s more rewarding than M+ then this would create a player shortage for m+) (If a group of players finish a delve then each player would receive 3 Crests this would still encourage “group play”.

Lets be honest here and players will always find the “fastest” route to acquire crests but as long as Group Play is encouraged it will create a health environment for people to make connections which an MMORPG is supposed to be right??

Sorry for the long post these are just a few ideas I had along wth reasonings as to why.

On a controversial suggestion , Gold should be limited across expansions not “patch’s”, After all EVERYTHING gets reset with a new expansion so why shouldn’t gold be?? As it stands we have people with BILLIONS of gold who basically ruin the auction house by monopolising all the materials and basically control the cost of things, So it creates a false economy. (I know there will be a lot of flame for this but this is something I believe the game needs to help keep the economy alive)

Even when you point it out they contradict themselves it doesn’t matter, you get choked for being the “bad green” guy like Krampus or some weird incoherent argument.

I don’t enjoy the game because it’s become too complex. Even as a beast master hunter I can barely fit all the needed abilities on my bars within reach of keybinds. (I’m physically unable to use modifier keys.)

Many abilities are similar, but not the same, each with relatively long cool downs. Why? To bloat my bar…?

Even just thinking of retail these days makes me annoyed and sad. Because I want to want to play. But the game as it is today does not want me to enjoy it.