Not kill them, just thrown a beat up passed out person in a lake to drown. This sh it wouldn’t fly in Orgrimmar and a Guard guild shouldn’t RP that. It’s ridiculous.
Drags you behind the tavern never to be seen again really quickly.
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Not so fast! You’re no guard guild but a legion which number is oddly familiar… do the last chancers ring a bell? Also… who is the guard captain?.. because sergeant are calling the shot and undertake actions faaaaar beyond their station, since they’re enlistees and all… ordering executions, handing over a prisoner to a penal legion etc etc.
There is a guy behind a guy, don’t worry.
Quite simple, everyone wants to be the winner.
Hi Umay, I’m going to reply to your post at length because I feel as though it is… So wrong, or rather misled, in its opinions, and views, that I need to respond. I hope you see this as a healthy discussion, but I’m going to be firm here.
The cause of the problem isn’t the average Joe RP’er, or any of the players/ characters that interact with the criminals, it’s the criminal roleplayers and the nature of criminal roleplay itself.
Criminal RP’ers are just as guilty of meta RP, power emotes, refusing responsibility/ consequences, and retreating into safe spaces/ bubbles.
Already you’ve contradicted yourself. Both parties are liable to meta-game, power-emote, and so on. Yes, they are. So… How is it not the responsibility of the average Joe – or let’s call them, ‘the victim’, to make sure when they’re confronted by a criminal role-player that they don’t devolve into these bad habits? I don’t understand how you can lift the responsibility from the victim entirely. That doesn’t make sense to me. This’ what I was talking about earlier when I said that most criminal RP’ers are made to look stupid, when they are not, by people they attempt to interact with.
They want to RP the Tommy Shelbys, the Tony Montanas, the Michael Corleones.
Ugh, I hate this. This’ just… No. People that role-play criminals with depth, quality, that don’t play shallow, Hollywood-celebrity-induced fantasies do not base their World of Warcraft characters on these cliches, tropes and stereotypes. What you’re doing is lowering the standard of all criminal role-players in your argument to something akin to low-grade chocolate. In fact, that’s what your rant is riddled with, big generalizations.
A good criminal role-player will have a backstory, real needs (money, food at the end of the day, lodgings; or a family to take care of.) They won’t be possessed by power for the sake of power. They’ll never imagine their characters as ‘Kingpins’, or ‘Criminal Masterminds’, events will topple as they should organically. – And that’s the root of my argument. It is very difficult to have organic interactions between a criminal role-player and an Average Joe, because there’s this stigma – that you yourself have so perfectly outlined in your argument – that criminal-RP is liable to OOC toxicity, or foul-play. Making the assumption before the fact is where the issue is now stemming from. It’s presumptious.
In crime RP, as I’ve seen it, there is a form of meta/ power-emote which I don’t think is described or defined by any other term, which is writing, implicitly, for other player’s characters.
It sounds to me like you’ve been running with the wrong crowd. I’ve experienced terrible criminal role-play myself, so I can relate, but then I’ve bookmarked those characters/players as off-limits and let them be. … On that note, I don’t personally like the kind of criminal role-play going on in Old Town either, Umay. As it is exactly as you’ve described. But I’ve also noticed that if I don’t go into Old Town, around certain shops, I never, ever, ever see these role-players or interact with them. They just don’t bother me.
Now, a counter to your argument: Antagonists are so rich with potential. The villains are always the best characters for a reason, they move the plot – they advance the story, they cause the tension. As you’ve said in your post, they have the best moments of reflection when they look back on failed attempts or successful scams. And sadly, we don’t see enough of them here on AD.
Quite simple, everyone wants to be the winner.
You can use this as a good way to identify role-players you shouldn’t play with. People who have got their heads screwed on right won’t want to win… They’ll want a fair fight. Because that’s what’s going to be the most entertaining element as a role-player. To be challenged. On-topic, a good criminal will know this. He won’t be too OP. Likewise, he’ll pick victims that don’t seem too OP. But then of course, we devolve back to the root of this topic, the issue, that Linda the Housewife when pick-pocketed likely won’t have anything on her today. Oops! Sorry! (I once made a Class Trial pick-pocket to test this theory. 4/5 people ignored my emotes or dismissed me by saying their characters had ‘nothing worth pick-pocketing’, 1/5 interacted with me healthily.) Or, she’ll turn around and haymaker the 210 lb man to escape the scenario unharmed.
It’s a slippery slope. A slippery slope. And a big discussion. I think what this thread has pointed out that criminality works best when it is agreed upon by both parties beforehand (via a quick /w). But I don’t agree with what you’ve outlined in your rant, Umay. It feels targeted more at low-qual role-players. But for the rest of us, who put time and pride into our hobby… This:
Organised crime RP itself… only really has a place in events and bubbles.
I can’t ever agree with.
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I mean, I can, but that really all depends on how it is approached. If the victim never signed up for anything and is just randomly approached by some mook or whatever, it’s perfectly reasonable for them to not feel like dealing with it.
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Not what I was saying, Tehya. My point was that you should not use power-emoting, meta, etc, to get out of situations you don’t feel like doing. A polite whisper would better serve the purpose and be understandable in that situation. It saves both parties from a possibly reputation-destroying scenario.
… And at the end of the day, you’re role-playing in SW (in the majority of the scenarios we’ve outlined here). A public space. A live metropolitan. Anything can happen, no matter how much you enjoy your safe-space.
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Except they’re not doing that, they’re describing the reality of the server.
All it takes is about ten minutes of RP walk around Stormwind to prove that this is the case and I’ll give you a free spoiler - it has been for a few years now.
Well that’s the point, isn’t it? We don’t see a lot of those, especially not in big places like Stormwind. Of course there are exceptions, mostly in cases of guilds who practically block themselves off from any unwanted interaction, but these come with a few of the same criticisms and some added ones.
Who else they could be running to? I think this thread and some of the posts did a good job of explaining why a crowd of “good criminal boyos” have a very hard time existing not only in this game or server, but in a multiplayer online game.
You can’t force a group of people to up their standards with a snap of your fingers, then comes the realisation that they themselves feel like they don’t need to change, because they’ve already have what they need. It’s not like they can run out of roleplay, because like I’ve mentioned before, both the criminal and law sides keep one another on life support, so they’re going to, or rather need to, support whatever the other side does to stay afloat.
Well except winning is encoded in human nature and even subconciously we’re drawn towards it, so I guess we’re better off making our bots and roleplaying with them.
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My annoyance with criminal RP on Alliance was that there was too much metaing/OOC agreement going on behind the scenes. Also the criminals and guards were too friendly with each other IC, so there were hardly any consequences for doing crime.
Consequences make criminal roleplay fun. It’s boring to RP a criminal Superman who’s untouchable.
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But how can said average Joe determine whether this criminal RPer is one of those who do it well instead of those who want to win and have power in RP?
Let´s say you walk around streets of Stormwind, looking for RP and suddenly, Stephen the Cutthroat gets behind you and tries to mug you. Maybe he is one of these good roleplayers and your character getting mugged will be really great time for you as a RPer.
But maybe he does it because he likes to feel powerful by being this awesome thief who is able to steal from anyone.
Unless you start RPing with Stephen, you won´t know that. And the only way to find out is, well, getting mugged by him. But here´s the thing: What are you supposed to do if you find out dear Stephen is not someone who is interested in good story and your enjoyment, but rather his own power fantasy?
Will you leave without explanation? That means you dismissed consequences to your character brought on by a criminal (this is quote from your original post, BTW).
Will you somehow overpower the criminal? That´s power emote, refusal of responsibility, retreat to your safe space or bubble RP, where you refuse the tension criminals offer (another quote from OP…well, more like paraphrase, but whatever).
So tell me, what is the right course of action for someone to refuse RPing with bad criminal RPer after finding out they suck halfway through the RP?
Or, you could read his TRP3 and make an educated guess? I don’t approach people unless I vibe with their style. It isn’t difficult to work out whether someone will be rewarding to play with from the time and effort they’ve put into building their character in the first place.
No? You’d/w them and politely state you’re not interested in that role-play, and if that role-play is fair-minded, patient and understanding, they’ll say: ‘Oh, no problem!’ If they’re not, and they’re mentally unstable, they’ll probably kick up a fuss. And then you’ll be in your rights to put them ignore and continue as you were. Communication is a hell of a drug.
So tell me, what is the right course of action for someone to refuse RPing with bad criminal RPer after finding out they suck halfway through the RP?
First of all, I don’t have all the answers. That’s a huge, awkward question, but I’ll bite, and attempt it.
The mature thing to do would be to politely explain in an OOC whisper that you aren’t enjoying the role-play, you feel uncomfortable, and would prefer to end it there. No flaming. No attitude. No resorting to meta or power emotes to get outta dodge. If both parties are adults, then the role-play will be concluded and you can both go on your merry way without embarassment and only a tinge of awkwardness.
Well except winning is encoded in human nature and even subconciously we’re drawn towards it, so I guess we’re better off making our bots and roleplaying with them.
Jeyce, some of us aren’t interested in dogmas like these. I don’t give a damn if I win or lose in role-play. All I care about is if both parties are having fun.
All it takes is about ten minutes of RP walk around Stormwind to prove that this is the case and I’ll give you a free spoiler - it has been for a few years now.
Except, you’re wrong. Reed, WB, and so on. There have been plenty of good criminal role-players in the past few years, great months of coordinated role-play, which included good initiatives. You sound like you’re out of touch, and I’m not sure why you feel you need to come into the thread, throw shade, and be pessimistic about the issue, but I know I don’t appreciate it.
(Posted on the wrong character. Aesos here!)
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To be honest, that kind of RP feels a little off for my feeling of the universe, personally. We have this wonderful.high-fantasy setting, why would I want to play Stormwind Citizen #5 with no extraordinary abilities when I have the option to be a mage, a paladin, a shaman, or something else wielding these amazing powers and travelling the world to experience those mind-blowing adventures, fighting bad guys and living through fantastic expeditions and battling the enemy head-on-- only to wee myself when Criminal Joe holds up a knife and tells me to give him all my money? It surely isn’t my cup of tea,I always felt SW criminal RP to be a little too ‘basic’ for my taste.
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Because RP is about creative writing, and shouldn’t exclusively focus on the shiny sparkly good bois whack bad bois RP?
Not to say that good bois whack bad bois RP is bad, but to say there’s no reason to RP an average joe is odd, innit?
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I could be alone in this but heroes journeys are a dime a dozen. I’ve always found regular folks tales in universes such as Warcraft’s more captivating. How life works and how it affects normal people in terms of the day-to-day makes it both relateable and intriguing.
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“ur trp isn’t gd enough so i won’t rp with u”
yeah this approach isn’t volatile at all. A lot of the good roleplayers I’ve met build their characters solely through, you know, roleplay and actual interactions and not building wiki/profile pages and so. It’s not all so black and white as you make it out to be, though I will say that it is somewhat easy to “pick out” certain elements from the crowd and guess they might be a waste of time, though you can’t ever be 100% sure.
In the end it’s down to the player to decide how and who they want to interact with but I really don’t think you should base your judgement solely on someone’s rp addon profile. Clothes don’t make the man, after all.
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I could be alone in this
You’re absolutely not mate. I agree 100%. This:
How life works and how it affects normal people in terms of the day-to-day makes it both relateable and intriguing.
Is the core of role-play, imho.
“ur trp isn’t gd enough so i won’t rp with u”
Just because you’ve become sour and bitter doesn’t mean you need to inflict it on the rest of us.
Well that ship quickly sailed off, didin’t it?
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If you’re purposefully going out of your way to misquote me and be a troll, eventually I will lose patience with you and tell you to get off my back, man. The toxic behaviour is uncalled for.
The irony is, you don’t even seem to be reading my posts. Half of what you’ve argued, I’ve already said and agreed with in my OP and replies here. You’re just repeating what I’ve said with less effort, and it’s showing.
He didn´t misquote anything, TBF. You said that the way to approach some criminal RPer (or any other RPer) is to look at their TRP, which is pretty bad thing to do. As Jeyce said, there are people out there who use RP to further and shape their characters and don´t write long life stories into their profile.
Also, there are many players out there who use TRP just to describe how their character looks and this description can often be pretty basic.
So what you suggest is to commit to RPing situation I may not enjoy with someone who may end up being powergamer only because it would be preposterous to just ignore them outright? And the preferred way to get out of this RP is to start communicating with this person on OOC level too?
From what you write, it really seems like you honestly believe that criminal roleplayers are this nice group of people who, even if they do powergaming and all other kinds of things that are signs of bad roleplay, are absolutely understanding to others? And somehow, it´s everyone else who is in wrong and we should just be more understanding of average Stormwind mugger, even if said mugger is doing it to “win”.