I do agree to this, the kind of “rework” i expect to see is to allow frost to use 2H’s, otherwise DK’s can be really fun. 8.1 I do expect to feel more like a slow unstoppable Juggernaut, but i hold my case til live.
Dps on the other hand…
Can you tell me what’s so fun about pressing 3 buttons? One of them sometimes 100% crits and another one sometimes is free to cast. I’m not saying you’re wrong or anything, just wondering. And the fact that someone really thinks that such gameplay is ok and enjoyable makes me mad 
how crazy life can be nowadays…
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If I wanted to be disingenuous, I would say that videos games are only pressing buttons and console games only have very few.
All WoW classes have very few buttons for their basic rotations.
But there are more abilities to use than Obliterate/Howling Blast/Frost Strike.
You have Pillar of Frost/ Empower Rune Weapon/Remorseless Winter/Death Strike (with Dark Succor).
With talents, you’ll probably have Chains of Ice/Frostwyrm’s Fury/Breath of Sindragosa. (That’s if you use “recommanded” talents)
That’s 10 buttons !
You can have 2 “use” trinkets and utilities (Dark Command/Mind Freeze/Death Grip/Anti-magic Shell/Icebound Fortitude)
Can you describe what would be an “ok” gameplay for you ?
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Adding at least 2 additional utility abilities to each spec and 1-2 buttons to basic rotation and more situational spells, like when mages had that healing buff for raid. Also I want more choices with defensive or offensive cooldowns, when I have to decide, if I want to spend my resources on less dmg, but more sustain or vise versa. Don’t tell me DS is the perfect example, because it’s very weak and boring.
In pvp i want variety of gameplay. For unh spec (which is my favorite) I’d prefer defensive playstyle with clever usage of cooldowns, while enemies slowly melting down. New cryptic fever talent and necrotic strike are good examples of such gameplay. Wanna see more of those.
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We don’t need to describe what an “ok” gameplay is because we already had it in wrath of the lich king and therefore already know that it works to vastly superior level than it does currently, and that is even completely ignoring the power of each individual ability, why do you think blood is so strong, it draws closer to what the dk used to be and is more free from being dominated by RNG alone.
Wrath dk was a constant series of forked roads full of scenery, what decision you made last and what decision you would make next would always be increadibly important and calculated, thus why people hated fighting dk, you always had some way to answer what they would do one way or the other.
BFA dk is like a straight road with very little on it, there is minor deviation in route but your fighting is always the same direction and cannot change thus why any other class can make the death knight look like a complete joke in a pvp environment once they have passed through their skill barrier.
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And thus, the great skillcap DK’s had back then made sense. They were easy to learn, difficult to master.
If you knew what you were doing as a DK, you could respond to almost everything. The talents trees had a focus on what you wanted to actively counter BETTER than the other trees:
Frost countered melee very well with its built in slow and high armor, as well Frost Strike being a weapon damage based Frost damage attack.
Unholy Countered spellcasters well with improved AMS and AMZ. As well being able to use your pet permanently
Blood was the middle ground, focused more on HP and self reliance. Self healing was rare, or very low for anyone else than healers. DK’s was the exception to this, at the trade of reduced/only physical damage.
See how different DK’s was back then? and what appeal they had back then? For comparison think of how extremely mobile Demon Hunters are at their core, and the synergy you can create with the different Talents. Now remove Fel Rush and suddenly DH’s would loose their fantasy of a quick, agile fighter, and don’t feel as good any more.
DK’s fit the fantasy of the slow, unstoppable juggernaut by lore, but not by gameplay.
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Lol. Just hopped onto my legion main, ran a few dungeons and I’m already sick of it. Being only 111 even with working legendaries and high stats doesn’t help at all. Still experiencing 5 seconds waiting in the middle of rotation, waiting for runes. Wtf is this indie company doing? Blood is decent, but boring. Feels like it misses a few spells to press sometimes. Runic Strike could be baseline with lower cd. And frost… don’t even want to try that BoS spec… rest in carbonara.
Siffrah, after reading your OP, I got to say I kinda agree with almost every point you make and how the each of the spec should be behaving.
I don’t know if it’s because I’ve got rose tinted specs on, but I felt that how we were during the end of Wraith, was pretty much how we should be as a class?
I stopped playing at the start of Cata and only returned at the end of this summer, so there is a lot of content and versions of DK I never got to experience, but I do find it staggering how we’ve ended up the way we are currently?
Some times, the best way to have a balanced, well rounded class, is for them to not be too afraid to leave things alone. Drastically changing things on a class, just because they want it to look like they have done something for a new expansion, or for the sake of making changes, is a really pi$$poor excuse for doing so.
Personally, I think Blizzard should let us go back to the days when we could use talent trees, so we could add bits from all 3 specs was a much better and rewarding way of fine tuning your char, so that you could have more flexibility to build on your own strengths and cover your weaknesses as a player.
From various things I’ve read and watched about how they are planning on making changes upto 8.3 , it seems they are just chasing after their own tails, trying to fix the problems they caused themselves with the BFA implementations?
They’ll never allow this ever again, because they turned into a tolerant, manner company with theme-park games. True nerds, who loved the game and difficult gameplay don’t work for them anymore, I guess, so half of the community turned into retarded handicapped invalids, who don’t want to learn their classes, read guides and go into in-depth mechanics (which don’t exist anymore). And on top of that, Actiblizzion treats all customers like we’re mentally disabled children, who can’t even handle frost\uh\blood rune mechanics. If they rework DK, they’ll have to do the same with all classes and admitt, that their game is sh1t and needs real improvements, and not 500 cinematics after each corner. I swear to god, if only they eventually updated classic to wotlk… I would eat my d1ck.
I agree. Death Knights need a good looking at and need realigning with their original theme. Most importantly for me, I would love for 2H Frost to come back.
wrath DK was cool and all but you dont want it back believe me.
1-disease1, disease2, main strike, secondary strike spam (for death runes)
2-mainstrike spam, dump RP, go back to 1
that was the rotation of blood, frost and unholy as dps and tank
and no, you would never DW frost tank, specialy in icc
like it or hate it, what we got now is miles away better than wrath, you could make a sequence macro for tank and spank bosses back then and afk
i just want more utility spells added to the base kit like asphx being baseline for all specs and not a talent, antimagic zone being a talent for pve not locked in pvp. bring back the summon undead for all specs (like before) with unh being the permanent one. corpse shield back, RW aoe stun talent back again, simulacrum. the utility spells that were either locked in pvp talents or removed entirely
hell, make the summon undead be a 2min CD where frost summons a ranged skellymage (like magus of undead), unh summons the valkyr and blood summon hulking undead dog like Gluth from naxx. and those 3 would have each their own special ability
Nice necro, but I agree DKs even 7 months later need rework. All specs. Frost needs it the most tho.
So half of the year past DKs still have few placeholder talents, auto attacks, pets still do most of the dps, still few gcds that could be removed, still we are wearing paper armor…What we got out of all that was 15% dmg buff to some skills. Nice…
I agree with most of what you’re saying except for the “paper armor” part. Lol.
Imo dk’s have had big issues design wise since legion.
It had multiple good ideas/parts like abomination with hook for unholy, valkyr you empower,summon alot of ghouls and reducing army cd aswell for more ghouls.
or dragon for frost.
But since removal of pressences and runes and just legion prune i havent really enjoyed my death knight at all anymore. I went from Loving it in Wod,I just loved loved how unholy and blood played and i loved frost aswell.
While i prfer dual wield for frost i think should still be option ,same for all other classes that used to have options(fury warr, monks not being stuck with 1hands ot their skills dont work)
We used to have extending of your dots for unholy, and necrotic plague a disease that kept doing increasing dmg and you could spread but you had to maneage it for aslong as possble for high stacks,Could Keep extending it or would it be worth dropping so i can get a fresh duration and focus on some more scourge strikes instead of festering.
Unholy blight to get dots or NP stacked up quikly, could consume or dots to get runes back. Had A raid utlity aswell with anti magic zone.
We used to have Bloodtap to control our runes,could save charges to burst or help focus on a add that needs to die or something.
Deathcoil wasnt useless , could fire it quikly but it gave bloodcharges and builded towards your dark transformation which had stacks for deathcoil aswell which only at 5 you could transform your pet and you had to pay attention to get it back right after it came out.
We aslo could army to help relieve pressure of tank in large pull in dungeons, or use it or Ams for prepull runic power and stack deathcoil buff so you could transform your pet from the start of the fight. Army wasnt amazing dmg(honestly was to low in wod) but it had other issues could be used for aswell.
And they got rid of runes, pressences and betetr pet focus and dots to give us dot that has no interaction and worse version of combo points, theyre rng not properly displayed like combo points are now, and are 1target only.
Blood with multistrike it flowed so fast,deathcoil increased your hp as a more filler spell,deathstrike healed for a ton and we had alot of cooldowns we could use,runetap,icebound,ams,Amz,boneshield, and bloodshield from deathstrike. felt 100% in control of your survival and mitigation and you had control over your resources
WIth breath you could do alot of dmg and it aslo helped vs large magic dmg as it healed you for a bit aswell for magic dmg taken. But really the spec just flowed well.
Frost you had choice of weapons, the killing machine wasnt just oblitirate and you could switch pressences(goes for all specs) blood and be more tank maybe to relieve pressure on the healers,unholy for faster run speed and faster rune regen but for frost your froststrike would now cost more and with loosing your runic power aswell there was a tradeoff.
And frost hit hard with oblitrate crits with 2hander. While frost hit more frequent with dual weild and hit hard still. But both had a different playstyle dual weild vs 2hand and 2hand was good for 1shotting or taking huge chuncks out of people’s health bars in pvp with 1hit.
All specs where unique from each other but still had things in common, and still Had their unique runes and pressences and the decision making that came with it it.
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I agree, Frost DKs should be freezing enemies to death lots of heavy slows while also being slow and doing massive damage, Unholy should have more debuffs, reduces and dots and Blood should be more vampiric and self healing.
Death Knights are just a mess right now and its really sad because they are really interesting and cool just Dead warrior bringed back to life to slaughter enemies once again with new powers of frost,blood and diseases
I’ll only speak of the Blood Spec as I do not play the others, but damn I’d sell my soul to get the old gameplay from Cata / MoP back.
I absolutely loathe the way the DeathStrike works right now. It’s just wrong, we have a class that must react to damages quickly but timing our DS efficiently and getting the most heal possible, but at the same time, if you are under constant pressure when you will find yourself without RP and runes, you will have to wait for the runes to go up again, then expend GCD to convert those runes into RP and ONLY THEN you can heal yourself.
And don’t get me started on the fact that these days we got too nerfed to compete with classes like Brewmaster Monk and that godamn OP Stagger. (It’s glaring on a fight like Orgozoa where I die if I don’t have 2 defensive CD when I taunt, and my mate monk is like “hur no CD needed kek”).
I miss my bloodshield that could actually absorb damages and not be borderline useless. I mean come on the trinket you can get on the Queen’s Court does MORE ABSORB THAN MY SHIELD. COME ON BLIZZ.
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This reminds me of wotlk.
Of course everything’s much more polished now, but for me, those were the best times for playing a dk.
Bring Back MoP Death Knight Class design. Best it ever was.
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Good joke.