What’s complicated about “powerful dragon-like beings were passed over in favor of other dragons who were willing to ‘bend the knee’. Now they’re free and looking to mess things up.”
Simple basis, right?
Because that’s where they are. This isn’t some military operation, why would generals yelling at us?
This is an adventure, a classic fantasy exploration adventure, and it is amazing as such.
I don’t want them to repeat the same old boring “faction conflict” story over and over again, enough of that.
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Dragonflight has indeed been a massive improvement since Shadowlands, although it would be great to feel some faction pride once again. A massive part of the WoW of old was having that faction pride & being able to go out into the world and encounter people to fight.
Of course we still have war-mode but if anything it feels often times like a free-for-all what with world PVP quests pitting you against anyone else not in your party. It’d be nice to be able to feel the resentment between the factions still as opposed to this “blank slate” approach a.k.a pretending that faction conflict never existed.
The Alliance and Horde have been at war for years, I highly doubt that any character in the WoW universe would simply just forget that their home was razed by either of the factions and forgive them after their family was slain & it would be good to be able to explore that emotion in-game.
I don’t necessarily think cross-faction is a problem but as we’re seeing in PvP, a large portion of PvPers have swapped to night elf simply because of the Shadowmeld racial ability being so powerful. Surely there’s still enough people playing to be able to find a group to play, would server merges help this issue?
That would be great. Faction conflict is the lifeblood of WoW, despite the loud minority objecting to it via twitter, in my WoW community we know there’s dozens of people that have quit WoW because their love of faction conflict has been stamped out by nu-lore.
Imo Blizzard could have taken more risks during BfA;
-Forsaken occupying Gilneas
-Stormwind razed/sacked by Zandalari
-Ironforge comes under siege
By implementing an escalation into the war via hubs and capitals coming under threat we’d have seen a greater immersion and a real sense of feel into the war. Part of the reason it never felt real is because we never really saw it in-game. We saw it in BoDA raid for example and SORT OF in Arathi Highlands/Kul Tiras but other than that where did the war take place? Why can’t a player come across a battlefield where a battle had taken place and see the aftermath of said conflict, or visit a city and be able to look out over the ramparts to see an army manning artillery?
BfA in theory could have been so amazing for story-telling but I genuinely think Blizzard just played it way too safe and also were extremely lazy. If Azeroth is to be the living, breathing world that we’re led to believe then it needs to be updated to the current times. The fact that we have classic out now means that we shouldn’t still be subject to classic zones. A lot needed to be done before we saw anything remotely immersive. Azeroth is essentially stuck in time, the territories of each faction need updating as well as individual racial territories i.e Andorhal.
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Powerful dragon-like beings is part of the problem. The story isn’t exactly relatable or compelling. I mean if aliens came to planet earth and had a completely different archetype of what constitutes a person and tried to extol their great stories/mythology, it would probably just come off as weird/unrelatable, a bit like DF.
Also in response to what you said regarding being a casual player. Fully agree, the term has been debased to where it lost all meaning. It’s now synonym with raid-logger. I thought it was interesting you didn’t like classic because it was very solo-friendly, one of the main reasons I prefer it over retail.
You’re unwilling or unable to look beyond the ‘dragon-like being’.
These are people, characters, that in their eyes were slighted by more powerful beings. That built resentment.
How is that not relatable?
Just bring the story back to its most basic components.
I played vanilla. And in vanilla I was a progression raider. I was fairly hardcore (because that’s the background I came from, in a gaming way).
But over the course of vanilla I began to realise that I didn’t actually enjoy the activity of raiding. I still had fun with my RL friends and online guildies over teamspeak, but… I didn’t like the actual activity anymore.
So from TBC onward I wasn’t a raider anymore. I helped out sometimes, if that was what the guild needed, but I just lost interest in that part of the game.
And there was not a whole lot of other things to do… My time in TBC was mostly spend grinding reps and farming ore. That sucks, looking back.
WotLK didn’t change anything in that regard. After the leveling experience, which was cool, it was back to basically doing those 2 things. Sure at some point they added the daily quests of the Argent Tournament, but I didn’t like those and I didn’t like any of the rewards on offer. So I quit.
I just have no interest in Classic because I’ve played it already. I feel no need to relive those days, because I’m a different gamer now. Besides; I really hate the old look of the models and such; it’s petty probably, but I can’t move beyond that. I want my character to look good and that’s impossible in Classic (imo).
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Do you know what a business is? It’s when people do stuff to make money. Taking big risks in an alredy declining market is not a thing many companies are willing to do. Also, I’Ve noticed that all the “risks” you’ve listed are again the Horde occupying/destroying not only Alliance territory, but Alliance capital cities. These aren’t “risks”, these are surefire ways to shut down your game entirely. BfA was already an epic disaster with regards to subscriber numbers on Alliance side, do you honestly think they’re going to risk losing all of them by basically shutting them out of the game entirely? This would be beyond idiotic, even by Blizzard standards.
People seem to forget that Blizzard needs to provide a service to both factions, and that people on either faction seem to have opposing views on how the factions should be portrayed.
If you checky post, I’ve said exactly that:
Not sure what the issue is 
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Oh yeah, sorry, it wasn’t meant TO you, more as an affirmation of what you said.
I could’ve been clearer on that. 
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I think a faction war would only have worked, if every race, could have chosen wich side to fight on, becuse not all orcs wants war, almost all races have their own splits where some thinkgs this is right where others feel it is wrong.
but at same time, most games whom have used factions that are at war, have sooner or later changed it also to one factions with sub factions you can belong to, but still you are friendly towards everyone, and it works.
only reason why people in wow, complains to it, is becuse they se the name warcraft and instantly thinks must be war, without even thinking what the word actualy even meens.
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The Horde is metal personified.
Yes but these epics were almost on par with raid gear at that time.
There were no difficulty modes so you’d be almost as strong as a mythic raider.
How much ilvl is that exactly compared to heroic or mythic raid gear?
I was also talking about titanforging.
I think Warcraft at that time was just more mature than it is now. I wouldn’t describe it as grim dark, but it had its moments. From the Alliance having to waltz into Medivh’s castle to kill him, to Alterac betraying the Alliance and getting their kingdom burned in retaliation.
The story felt more consequential. Things had consequences. Feuds weren’t forgotten.
I found that while it was fantasy, it respected real life. I found that Warcraft applied the real life aspect to fantasy quite well to that regard.
They literally show Garrosh Hellscream in the trailer for the vampire dudes. Uther in the one with the angels, Maldraxxus had Thrall’s mother. They all were disappointing.
What lore is there but contradictions? Drac’thyr has male Blood Elf and female Human in their visages, the Humans at that time when Deathwing created them were still in Northrend as Vrykul, the Blood or High Elves did not even exist at that time.
The only chockfull of lore there is seems to just be a retcon of a retcon of a retcon, not a lot of the lore in Dragonflight seems to make much sense.
No it’s very childish the way the quests are written.
The same can be applied to the show “Adventure Time” or “Steven Universe”, yet they’re both children cartoon’s.
Vulpera are a dumb race.
It’s not their game, they came afterwards, they don’t even have a handful of years applied to their CV.
No it won’t, Shadowlands wasn’t even that dark, just depressing honestly. Before you come at me with your Shadowlands rhetoric.
You better sit down for this
I’ll link cinematic, quests, voicelines and music.
Warcraft 3 intro
Warcraft 3 Grommash Hellscream cinematic
Warcraft 3 Arthas killing his own father
Warcraft 3 the Naga rise
Warcraft 3 Arthas takes the throne
World of Warcraft vanilla trailer
World of Warcraft TBC trailer
Patch 2.1 the Black Temple trailer
Patch 2.3 the Gods of Zul Aman trailer
Patch 2.4 the Fury of the Sunwell trailer
World of Warcraft WotLK trailer
the wrathgate cinematic
Patch 3.1 Ulduar trailer
Patch 3.3 Fall of the Lich King trailer
Fall of the Lich King cinematic
World of Warcraft Cataclysm trailer
Patch 5.4 Siege of Orgrimmar trailer
Warlords of Draenor trailer
Warlords: Kargath Bladefist trailer
Warlords: Grommash Hellscream trailer
Warlords: Killrog trailer
Ga’nar’s sacrifice
Blackhand’s cinematic
Kilrogg switches sides:
World of Warcraft Legion trailer
Varian’s death
Some ingame voicelines I find epic:
The rise of Tirion Fordring at 6:47
There’s a quest at the end of Mulgore which I like, you confront the Grimtotem and their betrayal for poisoning the blade of Garrosh Hellscream against Cairne in the duel, it’s voice acted but I can’t find it on youtube
Orno Grimtotem says: I’ve had enough of this!
Baine Bloodhoof says: So have I, Grimtotem.
Orno Grimtotem says: Baine! You’ve shown yourself! GET HIM!
Orno Grimtotem says: You will die in shame like your pathetic father.
Baine Bloodhoof says: It took a coward’s poison and the fury of Hellscream to bring my father down.
Baine Bloodhoof says: WHAT CHANCE HAVE YOU?
Orno Grimtotem says: This isn’t over, Baine…
Baine Bloodhoof says: It is for you.
Baine Bloodhoof says: We’re done here. Mulgore will no longer suffer the hatred of the Grimtotem.
Baine Bloodhoof says: I will meet you again on the Elder Rise.
To be Horde:
Garrosh and Sylvanas
Twilight Highlands intro Horde side:
Music:
Pathetic how they try to make Baine care for his people. The Grimtotem are right. The Bloodhoof line should have ended with Cairne. They know much better to lead the Tauren.
It was a time before Christie Golden got her hands on him.
Never forget Tides of War. He is stained forever.
Blizzard intended him to be much, much more of a brute than Garrosh even was, but sadly, that book has forever ruined him.
If you want to know where the intention was led, look up the dungeon from patch 4.3 where he appears in a dungeon and read his description.
I won’t. I made my opinion on him clear. Nothing Blizzard can do will change my opinion. The Horde woudl prosper much if Baine died and Magatha takes over.
What kind of argument is this? You want the Warcraft story to be dumbed down? Please play Warcraft 3.
So what, a video game can’t tackle this??
I’ve read tidbits of your text.
First off: The Burning Crusade had skirmishes. Eye of the Storm, the PvP objectives in the zones.
Wrath of the Lich King had the same.
Was this a war? No. Was this faction conflict? Yes.
Did anyone win? No. Did anyone lose? No.
It’s perfectly doable to write an interesting faction conflict without the need to redesign zones or rewrite quests.
That might be so, but the first quest you partake in on a newly level 1 character wittles down to “you’re in service of the Horde or the Alliance, you’re still a newb so why not kill some boars or wolves before you’ll strangle some dragons in our service”
The factions are directly made at the start.
That’s not really true…
If you captured the towers in Hellfire Peninsula, you got a stat boost and a reputation boost. So it was vital to go and capture them before going inside of the raid.
It really seems you actually do not enjoy the story of Warcraft a lot, I’ve seen you complain about Warcraft’s story being simple.
There are a dozen of MMORPG’s out there without any factions present at all. Maybe you ought to give those a try.
The first quest you do as an Orc literally tells you that you’re in service of the Horde and that they’ll train you to go on a journey, but first you’ll need to kill some boars to get stronger.
The factions are THERE FROM LEVEL ONE.
If you don’t like it, find antoher game.
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An Orc that signed his contract in service of the Horde from the moment you accept the first quest in Durotar.
If they don’t find a joy in the faction war, they’re not forced to participate in PvP conflicts or objectives.
“Why did Blizzard make the Horde and Alliance so lame?”
Why does the waning population of this forum lack intelligence?
The Horde is indeed lame. Due to the Horde council. They haven’t had a real victory since Cataclysm.
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How would an intellectual such as yourself describe the withering of the factions in a sentence?
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IT’s an argument that you gave a non-answer. An appeal to emotionality wehre none was asked for.
And since you are fragmenting my post in order to take tiny parts of sentences ouut of context I will give you a short answer, since you are apparently only able to digest very few words at a time:
A game differs from a novel in a way that game characters have more limitations. The
world has limitations set by the engine and Blizzard’s available resources for the project. A novel is literally made from words. Characters are more free to act as the novel requires and the world can change more rapidly than characters are able to act or the game world is able to be changed. Conflicts can be started and resolved in a much more dynamic manner than it would be possible in a persistent multiplayer game with a static world.
I am amazed that you still do not get this. Honestly and truly amazed.
Good Lord, you are thick. It is literally a minigame inside one of the zones and it was never required to do due to TBC raids being super easy. It might be required for the sweaty neckbeards on Classic servers, but in actual TBC no one but the World First people cared.