Uda i don’t understand why you bring so much Classic and how awful was ?
I assume that you played quite a lot (you must really hate classic) and you must be at least 35 years old .
In this conversation we just post good things/features that we enjoyed and somehow you reply to everyone with a wall of post and how awful was everything from gameplay-talents-skills-raids …
Just don’t try to be so negative or try to apply your believing’s to everyone from your point of view . You are a mature person…
I’m going to post 1 specific example and you are taking the example …and somehow manage to make like this was the worst thing to have in that specific period of the game .
I’m trying to understand you point of view …Not possible
I have read all your post … So … What feature did you enjoy ?? Because somehow you didn’t post a single feature in 8/9 expansions but try to shade everything from any poster here…
In classic you need to make sure you’re all set for the “journey”, but the actual things you then get to do are borderline mind-numbing for some. I’d say it’s more about preparing rather than thinking because the combat is incredibly simple a difficult mechanics are few and far between.
Retail is more about thinking on the spot. Classes are rotationally more complicated to play and there’s more mechanics to keep in mind when doing dungeons or raids.
It is about personal preference, everyone has different taste.
Also, I think the stat and ammo pruning etc were decided due to gameplay reasons, e.g. while these things were indeed immersive, they were only a mandatory threshold or checklist to be done and forgotten afterwards.
In a sense, this has never ever changed across 20 years of WoW.
For my example, I would never play anything (even single player games like Kingdom Come or Skyrim etc.) that I can’t minmax to the utmost mathematical harmony, and I minmaxed the same in Classic as in Retail so for me, there is no difference. It is just, my notes from retail have longer rotation or advanced concepts page, while classic notes have longer stats page or BIS list and that sort of things.
None issue and a blatant lie, you aimed for from vanilla to cata CTC cap once gotten you were uncritable thus not spikey anymore.
CTC , short for Combat Table Coverage , is how close a [tank] is to being unhittable. The goal is 102.4% to make sure that every hit is either a Block, Parry, Dodge or Miss. (dodge % + parry % + block chance % + 5 % miss base). For both classes of shield tank, Paladin and Warrior, the consensus is that for fights with mostly physical damage, reaching the CTC cap by stacking mastery is a higher priority than dodge/parry or stamina. Beyond the CTC cap, many tanks move their gemming towards stamina, rather than the other option of higher dodge/parry
sigh… You again explain what a minmaxer or hardcore raider would do. The casual player isn’t going to follow that train of thought.
You guys, for all your ability to crunch numbers and determine which value is more valuable than another, are really lacking the ability to understand the thought process of the casual player. You remind me of Cartman in that South Park episode where he was struggling to understand the concept of “taking responsibility and not throwing the blame on others”
Then the casual in vanilla to cata /late mop would not been able to have tank dungeons for example. I am sorry but i am not taking the view of somebody that has done nothing in game at all at any level in raid/dungeon when current as fact.
no it is not, if a player asked to join a dungeon run in any type of mode back then i would have asked if ctc capped as it would have been unfair on whole group to have such a bad geared tank simple as that.
That is why we, in olden days when vanilla and TBC were the hot news, excluded those players from any serious content or lowered their priority when loot or any sort of guild support was decided.
And this is nothing against casuals, I am happy for everyone to find their playstyle and so on. It is just how it was 15-17 years ago. There was a lot of politics in the ancient WoW.
Besides a lot of players were just happy to be invited in dungeon or raid or whatever, so we naturally used them for such runs when gearing the A-team.
PS if anything, when I hear people complain about lack of MMO aspects nowadays, when speaking with them I realize they miss the politics and old WoW’s uncompromising hierarchy on enclosured servers.
Not only tanks, DPS specs had their thresholds for Hit and Expertise caps, weapon skills effects, AP and so on. Caps not reached = you not coming with us.
I still remember Stormwind / Blackrock mountain inspects, Shattrath City Flightpath inspect before being allowed to join run etc.
I did not pug in vanilla, but we had a real nice friends and family guild where everyone could join the raid and raiding was pretty much like a special social occasion. We helped each other out, especially the more clueless ones with resistance gear and told them to click this or that at certain points but yeah, we went in blind, we died a lot, we did not care and kept going and bosses died.
So what you presented is perhaps just one of the many ways pugs were run
My examples were purely guild environments. Pugging back then was very risky endeavour with little to no chance of getting anything you wanted.
That is also why PvP scene was quite big, as a countermeasure to some guilds and their policies / egos / bragging rights. You either were part of the clique, or you became really skilled in PvP in order to build yourself a nice WoW life without being extorted by others.
I experienced that back in the days, not sure if I miss that now when I am over 30 yo.
Nowadays I am much more considerate for others, so I don’t think I would order noobs in a guild to farm consum mats for me if they want to get good reference and slight amount of chance with my raid leader. And ask gold/services for protecting them from gankers while they toil for guildmaster.
Yeah I have no experience with that but I know stuff like this often does not get mentioned / remembered with regard to Vanilla.
But in a way it is pertinent to how social hierarchies used to be the tenet of MMORPGs. In today’s real life climate, this would qualify as harassment and you would in some countries maybe even get fined for that… Crazy.
Nowadays in retail, noobs/casuals have better chances and options to enjoy the game thanks to all the automatic and anonymous systems in modern game.
Those who want to climb the WoW ladder have it much harder then in old WoW = you can’t be direct with your communication to avoid complaints and social contract violations etc. So you employ classical corporate HR methods and ways of speaking to get rid of casuals who aren’t pulling performance sufficiently.
Society and life sped up. The majority of people haven’t got the time and/or patience to do that now. People want close to instant gratification, not sitting in a town sharpening your blade for 3 hours.
Aren’t people spending hundreds and hundreds of hours per expansion waiting to get accepted to an M+ group though?
Really curious because I do not run M+ but I know a big part of it is just waiting and getting canceled and having to remake the whole group. Wish there was a way to track that.
Simple. Because this attitude of “classic was better than retail” has a history.
I enjoyed classic. In 2005. But its not 2005 anymore, and times change.
And over those 20 years of playtime I have done, the “nostalgia” of better times has always been a hot topic of conversation.
Eventually blizzard gave in. They gave the people that enjoy classic their own version of the game to play in.
And here we are. STILL discussing that “things in classic are better”. Directly. Or indirectly with posts like these.
All my apparent “negativity” is just reminding people WHY things changed. And I also remind people that retail problems need retail solutions. Going back to “what used to be” wont work. Its not 2005.
