Why do horde lose 85% of random bgs?

PVP Battlegrounds
41

It’s very much possible to carry a 40 man epic bg alone or with a small number of players and yes, good gear that allows you to produce strong dps / hps numbers is a part of it, as it will enable you to win fights more easily. The ability to communicate important objectives with your team is also important and so is the ability to take care of said objectives directly, such as killing glaives on IoC for example when the opponent controls docks. Maintaining a healthy mentality and not giving up after setbacks is also important.

The impact a small group of players who know what they are doing can have on the outcome of an epic BG is HUGE.

And no, your impact alone or in a small group won’t always be enough to win, but you should be winning much more epic bgs than you lose if you do some things right.

If all you have is your subjective experience, everyone can say “My subjective experience is different.”
I am one of these people who disagrees with you, but you only care about the opinions of those who agree with you.

Yesterday in the afternoon my warrior friend asked me if I wanted to play some casual BGs in a duo and we spammed random, epic bg and brawl for hours. We ended up winning around 80% out of 25 rounds as horde. A group size of 2 in a mode that allows all group sizes from 1-5 players is right in the middle and can be seen as somewhat representative of the average casual bg experience.
After we won 6 in a row I even started recording these rounds and we kept mostly winning, even though there were times when we got stomped badly, but then we just went next and won that one. I can show you the replay if you really want to and don’t believe me.

I can not confirm that the horde always has the weaker players at all. It varies from round to round.

This experience is hardly different whenever I play solo. 2 days ago I played 8 rounds solo and won all but 2, one brawl where we lost 9-10 and one epic bg. I met Murbastic a few times.

How do some players get to the top of the blitz ladder with an amazing win rate while others hardstuck around 1600?
By consistently being valuable for the team they get put in or carrying if you will.
How can a healer carry in a bg? By being at the right place at the right time, doing strong hps, anticapping bases that are attacked, getting caps while your dps fight etc.

Everyone’s win rate would be around 50% if the impact of a single player out of 8, 10, 15 or 40 would be insignificant. It’s not. Some play better than others and carry their team more. There are players whose name you read and you just know they consistently play well and make smarter moves than the average player.

If your win rate as horde is 15%, it tells me you are being a burden for your team most of the time.

^this

Rather than looking for greener pastures where they can get easy wins for free, the thing one should do if one wants to win more is to improve at the game by getting better gear, playing the objectives better and working on their mentality, as a strong player will be strong regardless of the team they are put in and capable of carrying it.

Either that or one can stay mediocre at the game and rely on others to carry them and go to the side where they think they will get carried more by others, I wouldn’t recommend the latter. If more freeloaders switch to the alliance in the hope of cheap wins I actually don’t mind. It will just make it easier for the horde to win, facing such easy opponents.

The horde has 50% bonus honor on everything and shorter queue times and games are not hard to win. It’s currently a great time to play horde in casual PvP.

The alternative to joining the (allegedly or not, we don’t know, there’s still no objective data) winning team is to become a strong player yourself, and in my opinion, this alternative is much better, feel free to disagree. It was just important for me to add this perspective to the discussion.

42

Simplistic answer. It’s also when you play “time on day” and those you play with. And if you are unlucky to meet those premade teams that got their stuff together. There is no easy answer to this.

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43

Not true, I just disagree with you which does not mean that i only care about the opinions of those who agree with me. However unlike yourself, I always appreciated your feedback even if your initial response was a bit vague in comparison to your later responses. Weather you agree or disagree with me on my personal opinions has nothing to do with me that is on you. Ive got what I want out of this post which is finding out there is a mixed bunch of folk some feeling similar and some not.

Thanks for your enlightening explanations it was truly stuff me and the rest were clearly oblivious too. Who would of thought a positive mentality in game would effect the outcome of games :open_mouth: silly me I never even thought of that! let alone the gear and builds oh my! some highIQ tech right there m8 thanks.

Im sorry if you feel that your opinion doesn’t matter here theres not much i can do about you feeling like that, however I would like to assure you ive simply decided to play alliance and as I explained in a previous reply in this post. I could literally be afk for alot of these games because there is pretty much no real fight on the horde in majority of my games on ally 2 nights in a row…

While I do somewhat agree and appreciate some of the points you are making that would generally indeed solve the issue as ive been in maaaany games where the chips are down but we press forward and pull it back with good communication and good teamwork for a W. It does not however change the reality of what myself and others are experiencing in game at the moment and have previously not experienced. I hope you can understand the point im making when I explain the difference some players can feel when they are going from horde to ally, I know you will disagree and that is ok, It does not make me your enemy. This is a safe place and i dont want you to feel under appreciated.

Thanks for the replies guys!

Have a marvelous weekend :slight_smile:

1 Like
44

Sometimes when people get mad in the chat and say that their faction always loses I look them up on the scoreboard and they are always underperforming in dps / hps and objectives. In addition to that, their mentality is miserable and they spread defeatism.
With players who complain about allegedly cheating Russians it’s a very similar picture.

I look at their performance and think to myself: “Yeah, if you always play like this, you are a burden on your team and I can clearly see why you lose all these rounds.”

This is what I’ve observed about players who complain about their faction, that doesn’t mean it applies to you. I don’t know how you play.

You seldom see the strong players complaining. Why would they and about what? They are too busy winning.

GL bro.

45

That has more to do with (5-stack) premades VS randoms and less with Alliance and Horde.
5 stacks are in both factions. I wouldn’t say it has much to do with the time of the day, but obviously with the player quality in both teams in general.

And that varies from round to round.

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46

Yeah its wild. One time I saw this guy join Arathi basin and before the game even started he started telling everyone on the team that we lose because this player has a negitive attitude. I remember that player actually asking wtf he was talking about maybe they had passed beef but he got no response from that guy anyway he seemed mad at the time but who knows. In any case the horde actually won that game even with the unnecessary negativity from the guy at the start lol. It was ironic because he started telling people we gunna lose based on a certain player being in the bg because of a negative attitude i think is what he actually said but i was just thinking is he not contradicting himself by flaming the other player lol. The whole interaction was insane. Very strange.

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47

That’s true.

48

Those people are always in there. I always /ignore them. They are like that work mate that always have a bad day and therefore everyone else should have a bad day.

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49

Exactly what I did lol. Its crazy to say that even on that winning horde team they are just negitive in chat and argue with each other… again before the gates even opened i was floord :rofl:

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50

There are some very important things in a battleground, one of them being what’s called "the opener’. It’s when the team decides what route to go, which base to attack, etc. Choosing one way or the other to start the battleground will influence a lot how the BG goes. Many times the winning team is the one that does fewer big mistakes.

Speaking of big mistakes, I’ve seen some behavioral patterns on both sides in different battlegrounds that will decide the battleground one way or the other in 90% of the cases.

Example 1:
In Alterac Valley, without anyone even saying a word, all the Alliance team avoids contact with the Horde team and goes directly to Galvangar and kills it. After that, they proceed with capturing towers and graveyards southbound. Those two minutes lost there usually make Horde start the boss with one tower up, while Alliance has burned only one.

Sure, some could argue that killing Galvangar is a good thing that takes 100 resource point from the enemy team, but you don’t need to do that in the opener. Galvangar can easily be killed by 7-8 people, the same that defend Iceblood Tower, after it burns.

Example 2:
Even with a lead, the Horde team scatters into 3-4 groups at the start, 2-3 people will always go to the ogres on the left side, 2-3 (if lucky) will go solar and 3-4 will go to the race track or Ring of Conquest, most likely to farm their 50 fragments.
You don’t need solar in the opener, it takes about two minutes to capture it if unchallenged, that damage can be used in the opener.
If you have the entire team at the start, do a shroud, hit the enemy from the side, prioritizing healers, you’re very likely to wipe the enemy. This will allow 2-3 people to peel off the fight and get solar, this will allow you to push them to the next flag and while they argue and regroup, you can move to either RoC or forest to farm some fragments that people need for the quest.

Additionally, people don’t understand the basic mechanic of regrouping. If they are closer to the graveyard than you are, they will regroup and eventually overpower you and push you back to the base. I’ve played so many BGs where we lost or we were close to losing, even though we had a consistent score advantage, because people didn’t understand this basic thing.

51

map wise ? i feel like alliance has more

horde has MAYBE twin peaks, and i say MAYBE because if both teams have flag, alliance in flagroom is hard af to kill, but yeah, jumping down is horde advantage

i don’t remember what other map hrode has advantage

but most of the others
gilneas is alliance route for ww better
deepwind they have shrine with reset and we have double zerg, prob better for them too

others are pretty much mirrored or same

52

Using speed items, gliders, paladin aura, etc. can give a team a serious advantage if the other team is not using them.

53

The alliance doesn’t kill Galvangar in the start because they have consciously decided this is a strategically smart move. They do it because iceblood garrison lies conveniently on the road they go down anyway and it is the first objective on the road.

The entrance is directly facing the direction from where the alliance comes, making it very inviting to enter, as opposed to Balinda’s place, where the horde has to go around a corner. When the horde decides to kill Balinda, it is more of a deliberate decision. They also do it just because they are used to doing it and they’ve been doing it for years.

I would like to try this. Do you have some video record of you pulling this off in a random team you can show me?

I’ve had pretty good experiences with retreat / regrouping orders per raid warning. When my team loses momentum and is about to get wiped, I tell them to fall back to the horde tower and regroup there. We wait for the other team to run into us and win back the momentum. When my team starts wiping them in Ashran, I tell them to push aggressively so the opponents don’t get an opportunity to regroup.

54

Problems should be solved next patch with Horde and Alliance queue in the same group.

55

What. We are? FINALLY! I want to pet my little gnome allys.

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https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/news/cross-faction-queues-coming-to-unrated-pvp-in-patch-11-0-7/

here :wink:

57

Bunch of useless replies, on my side the horde loses indeed 85% of bgs. I’d say 3 out 4 of bgs are filled with people with no gear and many with gear are just not good and it often ends in stomps while I win easily 8 out of 10 bgs when I play on my alliance characters so I guess it depends on your server group

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58

it wont solve it… ppl wil be able to group and q, but its not a literal cross faction where ppl q and can end up on either side (which is the actual fix to this issue imo)

59

Yep, but they will tag against other group for most of them. Battleground and premade are made like this for ages.

I cant say more than wait to see how it will work on live server :dracthyr_shrug:

60

It may even have the opposite effect, where good horde players get invited into ally groups, stacking skill/gear on one faction. (Different) premades from both factions could queue all on alliance/horde simultaneously, depending on how well the queues open for a specific faction.

So yeah, real cross-faction pools would be the only real solution for faction imbalance and group-syncing.

3 Likes