I don't understand why Mythic needs to have features like group locking and no cross realm on launch. If people want to try and pug Mythic what's wrong with that?
A lot of people simply don't have the time/energy/will to find and play with a group of 19 other players at a recurring time every week. Personally I just don't find it fun raiding with a guild nor being locked to a single group which I must stick with every week.
Isn't it about time to remove the Mythic restrictions? If Mythic is as difficult as people claim then there's no reason for people to be worried anyhow, and it just allows more players to progress through the hardest content without being tied and bound to a single group of people.
Then what's the point of having different servers in that case
I think cause theres still a bit of an mmo in wow, they want you to form relationships/friendships with other players. Form guilds, bring life to the game and enjoy it at its fullest. With people and friends you've made along your journey in the game.
Because locking an entire group to a single ID creats a commitment to the group and to the people who are part of that group. You cannot just jump ship after the first wipe.
This is an old concept and I don't expect modern WoW players to understand this.
This is an old concept and I don't expect modern WoW players to understand this.
Yet there are still so many who have no understanding of how the lockouts work, or that if they've killed Taloc they can only go back into that ID with the same people or people who aren't locked to any ID.
11/11/2018 20:40Posted by ÁjmageBecause locking an entire group to a single ID creats a commitment to the group and to the people who are part of that group. You cannot just jump ship after the first wipe.
This is an old concept and I don't expect modern WoW players to understand this.
Why is that a good thing? That allows other players to have complete control over your ability to progress.
11/11/2018 20:40Posted by ÁjmageThis is an old concept and I don't expect modern WoW players to understand this.
I've been playing since Vanilla, keep ad hominem garbage to yourself it just makes you look sad and jaded.
No, you were not playing since vanilla
It's not about random people who want to try mythic "out", it's about the high-end mythic guilds that are racing for world first. That's why the restrictions exist. Everything shouldn't be accessible, and that's just how it is. You need to be able to commit to something, and heroic is there for you if you just want to pug your way through.
Besides, closer towards the end of the tier the realm-restrictions are removed and you can effectively pug mythic all you want.
Besides, closer towards the end of the tier the realm-restrictions are removed and you can effectively pug mythic all you want.
11/11/2018 21:17Posted by PapudeathIt's not about random people who want to try mythic "out", it's about the high-end mythic guilds that are racing for world first. That's why the restrictions exist. Everything shouldn't be accessible, and that's just how it is. You need to be able to commit to something, and heroic is there for you if you just want to pug your way through.
"That's the way it is so that's the way it should be"
That's not a good argument.
Guild achievements and the ability to pug don't need to be mutually exclusive.
11/11/2018 21:17Posted by PapudeathBesides, closer towards the end of the tier the realm-restrictions are removed and you can effectively pug mythic all you want.
Doesn't help much with pugs because of the group locks. The vast majority of groups wont be able to get past Mother, let alone Fetid/Zek'voz/Vectis, since leavers are too rampant and nobody wants to join a group at 2 or 3 out of 8 since it would mean they have to skip out on the easy Taloc kill.
1. Because a size of 20 people is easier to balance. If you allowed flex raiding on this, you would just create a situation, that some bosses are just mechanically so much easier with X people, that every group would just take that many people to that boss. Well now that sounds fun, getting benched on a boss, just because it is much easier with 11 people instead of 20. It was just the same garbage as back in wotlk | cata, when sometimes the 10 man version was extremly more easy, while on other occassions the 25 man was way easier.
2.
Once you progress past the gift bosses (currently taloc&mother), you are playing the pinnacle of WoW PvE. At that point, there should be NO insentive at all, to just frequently be able to jump ship, because a raidnight maybe didn't go so well. Just as you don't just swap arena partners on 2.4k rating, because one day you lost lots of rating.
Commitment towards a group forces everyone in that group to play the best they can, because they can't just leave and that is exactly what you need, if you want to get further in mythic.
3.
Guess what... everything past the gift bosses is not supposed to be pugged...although, i would love to see the average pug try themselves on fetid, i would totally watch that.
2.
11/11/2018 20:40Posted by ÁjmageBecause locking an entire group to a single ID creats a commitment to the group and to the people who are part of that group. You cannot just jump ship after the first wipe.
Once you progress past the gift bosses (currently taloc&mother), you are playing the pinnacle of WoW PvE. At that point, there should be NO insentive at all, to just frequently be able to jump ship, because a raidnight maybe didn't go so well. Just as you don't just swap arena partners on 2.4k rating, because one day you lost lots of rating.
Commitment towards a group forces everyone in that group to play the best they can, because they can't just leave and that is exactly what you need, if you want to get further in mythic.
3.
11/11/2018 21:36Posted by FoxtownDoesn't help much with pugs because of the group locks. The vast majority of groups wont be able to get past Mother, let alone Fetid/Zek'voz/Vectis, since leavers are too rampant and nobody wants to join a group at 2 or 3 out of 8 since it would mean they have to skip out on the easy Taloc kill.
Guess what... everything past the gift bosses is not supposed to be pugged...although, i would love to see the average pug try themselves on fetid, i would totally watch that.
11/11/2018 20:47Posted by Foxtown11/11/2018 20:40Posted by ÁjmageBecause locking an entire group to a single ID creats a commitment to the group and to the people who are part of that group. You cannot just jump ship after the first wipe.
This is an old concept and I don't expect modern WoW players to understand this.
Why is that a good thing? That allows other players to have complete control over your ability to progress.11/11/2018 20:40Posted by ÁjmageThis is an old concept and I don't expect modern WoW players to understand this.
I've been playing since Vanilla, keep ad hominem garbage to yourself it just makes you look sad and jaded.
Wow! It didn't take much to offend you.
This is an MMO. You are supposed to play with other players. The "old school" way the game used to be forced you into this direction, but with time this once great game bacame a single-player experience. You can do almost anything by yourself or with little to none cooperation with others.
The mythic raid lockout is one of the remnants of the old system. If you wanna do high-end raiding content you need to force yourself and make some friends.
Join a raiding guild, join a raiding community and progress with the same peoples as raiding should be at every level of difficulty.
11/11/2018 20:47Posted by FoxtownI've been playing since Vanilla, keep ad hominem garbage to yourself it just makes you look sad and jaded.
Then you are used to it since it's been a thing since WOTLK so please take your silly use of latin away with yourself .
Well, the thing is - lots of people already outgeared Heroic to the point where you can just steamroll trough dungeons without worrying about pulling too much or standing in fire. They have all the tools necessary to do at least low Mythic to have some challenge because have none.
Yet to do so you can't just que for it, you have to find a group and do all the "bureaucracy" every time. And if you do not want to do this part and - too bad.
Yet to do so you can't just que for it, you have to find a group and do all the "bureaucracy" every time. And if you do not want to do this part and - too bad.
11/11/2018 23:26Posted by ApsalareWell, the thing is - lots of people already outgeared Heroic to the point where you can just steamroll trough dungeons without worrying about pulling too much or standing in fire. They have all the tools necessary to do at least low Mythic to have some challenge because have none.
Yet to do so you can't just que for it, you have to find a group and do all the "bureaucracy" every time. And if you do not want to do this part and - too bad.
But that's not an issue with mythic as a raid difficulty and its restrictions.
That's an issue with people getting high quality gear stuffed up their arses for doing low tier content.
11/11/2018 20:33Posted by SárádáThen what's the point of having different servers in that case
Reducing the overall lag and making sure zones aren't overly populated.
So you want all the benefits of organised group content without putting in any effort.
Were people this entitled back in Vanilla from whence you came?
Were people this entitled back in Vanilla from whence you came?
Doesn't help much with pugs because of the group locks. The vast majority of groups wont be able to get past Mother, let alone Fetid/Zek'voz/Vectis, since leavers are too rampant and nobody wants to join a group at 2 or 3 out of 8 since it would mean they have to skip out on the easy Taloc kill.
That's their own fault. Do you think pugs are capable of progressing on a mythic boss for +100 potential wipes? No. That's the reason they can't clear the raid, not the lockout.
It would also allow for some really cheesy strats, since now extending a raid lockout wouldn't be a big deal. Just get an alt to join the raid, have them extend the lockout, while your mains clear the bosses they still need for loot and then skip the rest with the lockout. This would significantly change the way mythic raiding works in general, and it would also make it less difficult. Another way to put this is that it would diminish the value of mythic raiding and the accomplishments that people have.
Bottom line: changing the way the lockout works would make mythic easier. We should just call it heroic+ if that was the case. If it's too challenging for pugs, too bad, maybe they should organize themselves better.
Let's say, that in some very weird scenario, Blizzard would actually let this happen. Then what's gonna happen? Nothing much really, you'd just get a worse version of Heroic pugging. Bosses are harder, and even guilds are struggling on many as we speak.
Second, people will, just like in Heroic pugs, probably leave after a couple of wipes. Guess what, you can go back to finding people again, because it doesn't share the group flexibility of Heroic and Normal.... Preferring this instead of raiding with a guild, I'm sorry, but who hurt you?
Let's not even get into the posts and suggestions that would follow suit after this change. I can give you a sneak peek: something along the lines of "Why does mythic raiding require 20 people, why no flex" and "Why is mythic so hard to pug?"
Mythic raiding, and Heroic to an extent, are intended to be done in organized groups (guilds mostly). If you can't be bothered to invest in that, then maybe that content isn't for you.
Second, people will, just like in Heroic pugs, probably leave after a couple of wipes. Guess what, you can go back to finding people again, because it doesn't share the group flexibility of Heroic and Normal.... Preferring this instead of raiding with a guild, I'm sorry, but who hurt you?
Let's not even get into the posts and suggestions that would follow suit after this change. I can give you a sneak peek: something along the lines of "Why does mythic raiding require 20 people, why no flex" and "Why is mythic so hard to pug?"
Mythic raiding, and Heroic to an extent, are intended to be done in organized groups (guilds mostly). If you can't be bothered to invest in that, then maybe that content isn't for you.
12/11/2018 00:24Posted by DejarousSo you want all the benefits of organised group content without putting in any effort.
Were people this entitled back in Vanilla from whence you came?
No idea where I said this. I want people to fail at Mythic pugs because of the difficulty, not because of the arbitrary restrictions like cross realm/instance locks.
12/11/2018 01:15Posted by Papudeath
Doesn't help much with pugs because of the group locks. The vast majority of groups wont be able to get past Mother, let alone Fetid/Zek'voz/Vectis, since leavers are too rampant and nobody wants to join a group at 2 or 3 out of 8 since it would mean they have to skip out on the easy Taloc kill.
That's their own fault. Do you think pugs are capable of progressing on a mythic boss for +100 potential wipes? No. That's the reason they can't clear the raid, not the lockout.
Look at bosses like G'huun, that already happens in Heroic so there's no reason to assume it wouldn't in Mythic.
Don't assume people who want to pug are lazy, entitled or low-tier players, when in reality a lot of them just don't like being tied to a single group or being in a guild.
[quote]
Bottom line: changing the way the lockout works would make mythic easier. We should just call it heroic+ if that was the case. If it's too challenging for pugs, too bad, maybe they should organize themselves better.
Shouldn't the difficulty in Mythic raiding be within the content and the coordination needed to complete it? Not arbitrary restrictions on groups and who can play with each other?
12/11/2018 04:04Posted by BoozeboiLet's say, that in some very weird scenario, Blizzard would actually let this happen. Then what's gonna happen? Nothing much really, you'd just get a worse version of Heroic pugging. Bosses are harder, and even guilds are struggling on many as we speak.
Second, people will, just like in Heroic pugs, probably leave after a couple of wipes. Guess what, you can go back to finding people again, because it doesn't share the group flexibility of Heroic and Normal.... Preferring this instead of raiding with a guild, I'm sorry, but who hurt you?
If you don't think pugs would be able to do Mythic why do you care so much? Let them try and fail :)