Why is it that Mage is so weak compared to f.e Warlock? (Raiding)

Classes Mage
1

Right now all three Warlock specs are doing better then the best Mage spec. This is nothing new either. Almost anytime in time Warlocks have been doing better then Mage. Im speaking about high end Mythic raiding. Both in Legion and for the entire BFA Warlocks have been doing quite a bit more DPS then Mage.

Im just wondering if this is by design but then again…it MUST be!? Why else would Warlocks almost always be doing better then Mage? And for the guys who say “but Im top dps in my guild etc…”, that doesn’t matter and doesn’t mean anything at all. What matters is the potential of class DPS. You will find that in the 95:th percentile and up of Mythic raiding. This is the place where you start to see what the potential of each class is.

So if it is by design, what is it that warrant Warlocks to be higher on DPS then Mages (and again it MUST be by design or it wouldn’t stay this way expansion after expansion and patch after patch…If you look at all time im sure that atleast 90% of any given time in timel, Warlocks are doing better)?
I mean Warlocks have the utility so it can’t be that. Why do you guys think this fact exists? Because it is just that…a fact! The fact that the absolute majority of expansions and/or patches Warlocks have been in a MUCH better place then Mages.

I would like to know why.

1 Like
2

That’s not true I’m afraid. First half of legion mages were flying and locks were struggling. Locks got better with higher secondaries later into the expansions.

Class balancing is all over the shop atm and it’s only going to get worse with the new heart of azeroth traits it seems. Could be worse, DK raid dps for example, both specs really struggling.

3

Well now you are nitpicking. My point is that as a whole, generally Warlocks have been doing much better pretty much all the way. Then there have might have been some shorter periods of time where Mages have been doing better. If you look at the big picture though, my statements stands true.

About Mages being better in the start of legion, Mages were only better in Emerald Nightmare with Warlock just behind. In Trial of Valor, The Nighthold, Tomb of Sargeras, Antorus - The Burning Throne it was Warlocks all the way. And so far in BFA Warlocks still reign supreme.

Last time Mages were really good was back in Draenor, since then they have pretty much been middle of the pack/lower part of the charts with a few exeptions.

4

PVP reasons maybe, which transfers to PVE.

Mage has mobility while lock dont have mobility, thus lock designed to be more of a damage dealer and mage much of a controler.

But lot of PVE fixes for mages can be done through using pvp talents such as firestarter to restart combustion quicker and arcane empowerment for arcane.

5

I swear locks have more damage, survivability and more/better CCs than us.

2 Likes
6

Locks can take a lot more dmg than we can. They’re tanky we’re mobile. They have lots of choices for cc’s but it is choices, they can’t even interupt without the right pet.

2 Likes
7

Mages are in a bad spot right now
I’m expecting a buff to damage

1 Like
8

Affliction

Baseline - Fear (fear), Shadowfury (stun)

Pet - Spell Lock (interrupt) or Seduction (incapacitate)

Talented - Mortal Coil (horrify)

PvP talent - Curse of Tongues (cast slow)

Demonology

Baseline - Fear (fear), Banish (banish), Shadowfury (stun)

Pet - Spell Lock (interrupt) or Seduction (incapacitate) or Axe Toss (stun)

Talented - Mortal Coil (horrify), Grimoire: Felguard (stun)

PvP talent - Call Felhunter (interrupt), Call Fel Lord (stun), Curse of Tongues (cast slow)

Destro

Baseline - Shadowfury (stun), Summon Infernal (stun), Fear (fear), Banish (banish)

Pet - Spell Lock (interrupt) or Seduction (incapacitate)

Talented - Mortal Coil (horrify)

PvP talent - Entrenched in Flame (root - doesn’t break on damage), Curse of Tongues (cast slow)

They aren’t exactly spoilt for choice.

Frost

Baseline - Frost Nova (root) Polymorph, (polymorph), Counterspell (interrupt)

Pet - Freeze (root)

Talented - Ice Nova (root), Glacial Spike (root), Ice Ward (root) or Ring of Frost (freeze)

PvP talent - Frostbite (root)

Fire

Baseline - Frost Nova (root), Dragon’s Breath (disorient), Polymorph (polymorph), Counterspell (interrupt)

Pet - N/A

Talented - Blast Wave (knockback), Ice Ward (root) or Ring of Frost (freeze)

PvP talent - None

Arcane

Baseline - Frost Nova (root), Polymorph (polymorph), Counterspell (interrupt)

Pet - N/A

Talented - Supernova (knockup), Ice Ward (root) or Ring of Frost (freeze)

PvP talent - None

There’s a bit of disparity, isn’t there? They may have to choose their CCs, but most of them are a no-brainer.

On top of that, their main CC - Fear is basically Polymorph, but better - it doesn’t heal the target, doesn’t remove DoT effects and only has a ‘‘chance’’ to break on damage.

They even have access to a hard CC baseline (Shadowfury), with the capacity for 1-4 stuns across the specs. All our CCs break on damage.

4 Likes
9

Everything that frost does is a cc. Still rather have roots and blink than be a lock myself. And I doubt they have the upfront power of a fire mage?

Baseline for frost also frost nova, cone of cold, frozen orb, blizzard, flurry and even frostbolt. Greater invis also very strong for arcane.

10

Because Activision developers and designers joined WoW team during and after MoP. They tried to play Mages and they got overwhelmed. So instead of learning how to play them, they destroyed us. Yes! Yes you did just that. So many abilities were lost. WoW Mages today are what Jews were to 3rd Reich and Im not even kidding about that. Mage design is in trashbin currently. This game is going to get worse and worse from now on. Its about hamsterwheel and spending time on cash shop, because people are addicted and they just simply have to reroll, because the class they once loved has been destroyed.

1 Like
11

“Let’s take anecdotical info that is not true for even two full different expansions and showcase it as a proven truth for the full duration of the game!”

12

Regarding pvp …mages have the advantage if played right… look at venruki zico xaryu …i think each class has its own strength but to your original point i do think mages need a buff :slight_smile: im a new player so i dont have much merit however from what ive seen generally warlocks do have good dmg

13

Because warlock main theme is to pull out huge numbers.

Warlock is always considered stronger than mages lore wise. Because warlock is just mages gone full EMO.

3 Likes
14

Mages feel more like support classes now because we have been pruned so hard. We cant stand on our own and it sucks.

15

Not sure where your pulling your facts from Juukiechan, but it isn’t any form of reality I know. The orig class description for mage when wow launched was one of the top dps / glass cannon specs in the game and it lived up to that.

Now its a joke spec that every other class, not just warlocks, can and will easily out dps.

2 Likes
16

Just re-roll and have fun. :slight_smile:

17

I’ve been having great fun on my Elemental Shaman if that helps.

Higher, more consistent deeps, more utility and mobility. Playing it right actually feels rewarding, especially with Master of Elements having me weave abilities around Lava Bursts.

Only 3 Ilvl higher than my Mage main (lucky titanforging), yet I’m pulling far more dps than Fire (30%+) or Arcane (10%+) on ST and substantially more on AoE. It’s about equal to Frost performance wise, but it’s way more fun to play.

Every talent row except the lvl 100 row has 2 viable options! Madness! Even then, the Unlimited Power talent should be viable, if not the best at higher mastery levels.

I love the Mage class and I wish it was better/more enjoyable, but it’s not, nothing’s changing and it doesn’t look like anything will change before 8.3/next exp.

18

Mage is still enjoyable, maybe you just need a break from it. I mean I haven’t maxed out a shammy but I can’t imagine it has more mobility than a mage. And it takes a lot to be more fun that floating down onto a battlefield lauching fireballs (“I’m Mary friggin Poppins y’all”) at confused people below.
Not that ele isn’t fun, having the aoe stum is great and that lightning knockback can kill 3-4 people when positioned well in a bg lol. Also saying “So be it” in your best emperor voice and casting chain lightning is awesome.

19

Whilst it doesn’t have a Blink, the sheer volume of instant casts is utter madness.

Having Flame Shock on even 2 targets is usually enough for you to have a Lava Surge proc up on every cast. Was pulling 28k dps on The Restless Cabal yesterday with 40% of my damage coming from LB alone.

So you’ve got the stream of instant cast Lava Bursts in addition to Earth Shock, Flame Shock, Frost Shockx4/30secs (Icefury), Stormkeeper’s 2 Chain/Lightning Bolts and Ghost Wolf. The mobility doesn’t come from an ability but rather a lack of necessity in the use of cast time abilities, something Mages have issues with since all our procs (Clearcasting/FoF/BF/even Hot Streak when you run out of Fire Blasts) are directly tied to cast time abilities.

It’s not great in arenas, their template is screwed up, I go from firing off 22k LBs + 18k Overloads to 12k LBs + 10k Overloads. I only really arena PvP in Enhancement but since it’s a melee spec, I’ve got nothing to complain about, Stormstrike does crazy damage.

In BGs I’m all for Elemental - knocking numbskulls off of cliffs, frogging peeps then having them trinket into a stun that blitzes their health bar and Flame Shocking everything in sight so I have a constant stream of Lava Bursts. :smiley:

1 Like
20

Mages need to be able to do 1vs3 montages, like they could do in the past against people that arent ready like Neo. :wink: