Why isn't there endgame content for super casuals?

[Uda-uldum]

Tah dosent claim that Casuals are a majority. All he asks is to respect the game mode he likes, which is a fair thing to say.

However… you on the other hand… lets unpack that BS you just posted.

FIRST. The term “casual” refers to playtime. Not game mode or skill. You can be a “casual” player doing Mythic Raiding or Heroic Raiding. Just to put an example here.

@Zeline-genjuros

At the end we are looking at the Numbers .

Get me those numbers. Not numbers you made up from thin air.

For starters, M+ participation depends on its difficulty and season. And we got data for that via Raider IO. Latest data shows 2M weekly COMPLETED keys. With out counting INCOMPLETE keys (let me remind you that ALL dungeons have sub 60% completion rate, some reaching 30/40% completion rate).

So I got my numbers for M+. You don’t.

My numbers suggest there are hundred thousands, if not MILLIONS people doing M+ every week. It would be absurd to claim that all of a sudden that is 10% of the sub numbers… What ? All of a sudden Blizz has 50M subs or something ? I doubt that.

Basically, you… are… WRONG…

Especially because you can be a casual player, AND enjoy M+/Raids/PvP as well. You don’t HAVE to like Outdoor activities. That is where you are especially wrong. Where even CASUALS don’t want to do Open World activities.

@Zeline-genjuros

What becomes of the Largest player base participation on 1 and 2 ? What happens when you don’t provide content for the largest participation that exist in the format 1 or 2 . ??

Like I said. Pure BS.

WHERE… ARE… THESE… PEOPLE… ???

So if there are so many people in (1) why cant I see them in the Open World ? I literately did that. And I presented my results in a post above. I literally compared say… Hollowfall Wold Quest zone (the light the 4 candles one) in S1 of WW, where everyone was there farming Delve Keys and stuff… to today.

The difference is STARK. It went from 100s of people to literally just 2. On a Sunday. Prime time.

In addition to witnessing this myself, I presented posts in this forum of other people complaining that they don’t see anyone in the open world. In previous expansions.

@Zeline-genjuros

If you pick up the numbers on this Format 3 and 4 we have a participation of almost 10% ?? Because i’m a good guy , Let’s say 15%.

You know what angers me the most about this blanket statement you just made up? About this “massive” casual community out there ?

The key level squish. It was made BECAUSE blizzard listened to this “massive” player base.

How many people do you know that are “chilling and honing their skills” in Heroic and M0? Yeah… that’s what I thought… NOBODY. And I got data to prove it. Unlike YOU.

So blizzard made the MASSIVE mistake of listening to blokes like you and ruined M+ for the ACTUAL majority of people that enjoy M+. With a timer.

So stop making up numbers please.

Dont believe me? Here: Have a read…

@Uda-uldum

Im sorry WHAT ?

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24072151/dragonflight-season-4-dungeon-changes-ahead

Official statement from blizzard.

And I quote:

---

In the Player Feedback Loop

The only truly endgame dungeon mode (M+) currently revolves around a timer. This means that other than new mega-dungeons, there isn’t really a place for endgame players who enjoy a more methodical dungeon pacing and gameplay.

No Timer Like the Present

Season 4 changes will apply to all eight of the Dragonflight dungeons. As a part of these adjustments, we have a few goals in mind:

• Recalibrate core difficulties to align with seasonal player experience and progression.
• Serve the community who enjoys dungeon content but feels that Mythic+ content isn’t for them due to the pressures of taking part.
• Create a better environment in Mythic dungeons to prepare more players to take part in Mythic+.

One of the most notable changes players can look forward to is the removal of the timer for Mythic Keystone dungeons for what are currently 0 and 10. Players can run through these dungeons at their own pace without the need to watch the clock while still honing their skills.

---

end quote

That is the OFFICIAL Blizzard post. Stop talking about fortified/tyrannical in 10s. Has nothing to do with what happens with the squish. Its the OTHER side of the spectrum.

[Kaløyan-sylvanas]

The endgame for super casuals is called “PvP”.

[Sawator-mazrigos]

It doesn’t matter what they add to the game, its gonna end up feeling repetitive, because players consume content a lot faster than devs can make it. What you are looking for is never gonna happen in a MMO.

[Zeline-genjuros]

What i have written and your response … . Go outside .

[Uda-uldum]

@Zeline-genjuros

What i have written and your response … . Go outside .

Awesome comeback ! Love the debate.

Also, I am outside. Gotta do something while I wait for the bus.

[Zeline-genjuros]

What debate ?

You can check the total amount of players ~ check up the number of kills hc/mythic do a math and get that percentage .

For m+ you can check individuals -number of keys completed of each difficulty and find that number .

Did i write something that doesn’t add up with the numbers ?

[Croil-kilrogg]

Being able to progress and farm teir mogs without waiting 2 years and hoping they make the content be solo?

@Zeline-genjuros

What debate ?

You can check the total amount of players ~ check up the number of kills hc/mythic do a math and get that percentage .

For m+ you can check individuals -number of keys completed of each difficulty and find that number .

Did i write something that doesn’t add up with the numbers ?

Its the same flaw when ppl guess WoW subs… characters are not unique accounts add in alts… so its going to skew numbers.

[Uda-uldum]

@Zeline-genjuros

What debate ?

You can check the total amount of players ~ check up the number of kills hc/mythic do a math and get that percentage .

For m+ you can check individuals -number of keys completed of each difficulty and find that number .

Did i write something that doesn’t add up with the numbers ?

Yes. Read the post I wrote.

You also missed the most important part :

@Uda-uldum

FIRST. The term “casual” refers to playtime. Not game mode or skill. You can be a “casual” player doing Mythic Raiding or Heroic Raiding. Just to put an example here.

@Uda-uldum

Especially because you can be a casual player, AND enjoy M+/Raids/PvP as well. You don’t HAVE to like Outdoor activities. That is where you are especially wrong. Where even CASUALS don’t want to do Open World activities.

[Starla-aerie-peak]

@Alaryon-outland

But for true world players like myself, who for whatever reason can’t stomach the repetitive nature of most of WoW’s gameplay systems (including Delves) and just want to be able to roam the world… well, there’s not a whole lot to do at max level.

It is quite nice to experience a feeling of immersion in the world, choose content at your own pace and dip in and out, bit of ‘cosy style’ gaming for a relaxing change of pace.

Over time Blizzard have put a lot of effort into offering various quests, transport options, decent ‘settlements’ and more npcs since Classic. Which breaks up the kill this kill that all the time.

Some of the heritage questlines were a great option to pick up and do at the players pace. I would like to see more optional stories or long evergreen questlines, which explore lore, characters, offering cosmetic transmog, pets and crafting recipes.

Ideally the long questlines could be documented in a diary or book, so the player can come back and catch up where they left off without trawling Wowhead. (Scribes could add customised illustrations for it).

@Alaryon-outland

rchaeology is no longer supported in new zones. I’m really not sure Delves can serve as a replacement to this feature. Why not re-instate it? It was fun to see all the lore and to just run around old zones to click things.

In other cosy games players collect stuff to fill museums, maybe something like that could work here ? Some designs could inspire tailors and offer recipes ? Again effort added to books to populate libraries.

Npcs in addition to guards could be more useful in cities, the armorers could inspect your gear and suggest improvements ?

@Ishayo-tarren-mill

I think what we need is a progression system that serves open world players with increasingly hard areas and associated quests. Like vanilla levelling actually, but without it getting in the way of other end-game activities.

Er no !

Great for groups, rubbish for solo players like myself. Remembering Zaralek, it just became a no go dead zone for a very long time after the well geared players have zerged through asap. Researchers and WQ there were a total pita to complete afterwards.

@Ananda-kul-tiras

Worldsoul memories are fun but half the time I don’t know what’s going on and 95% of the time I’m the only person in it so don’t have a hope of getting to and killing the big nasty at the end.

Same here. Last time I tried a lot of melee mobs were in my balance druids face. Wasn’t fun for me.

@Ananda-kul-tiras

Also this. There was a real feeling of jeopardy in vanilla if you accidentally strayed into a high level zone as a low level with really big bad mobs and often not a hope of getting out alive.

Still a no from me, only benefits groups. Dodging one patrolling big bad adds flavour, more than that = more stuff I cannot get to do.

[Tah-earthen-ring]

@Uda-uldum

Just let me know. If possible a bit in advance. Send me a PM ingame. Because I schedule things in WoW with people via WhatsUp, Discord and ingame Whisps. Its the price you pay for doing “organized content” and I want to make sure im available when you are.

Yeah, that’s the thing; I’m the complete opposite. I don’t schedule anything concerning WoW; I play at my whims. I suppose that’s why I like playing solo so much; no need to schedule or keep other people’s schedule in mind.

[Uda-uldum]

@Tah-earthen-ring

Yeah, that’s the thing; I’m the complete opposite. I don’t schedule anything concerning WoW; I play at my whims. I suppose that’s why I like playing solo so much; no need to schedule or keep other people’s schedule in mind.

We did schedule our last Delve escapade…

[Tah-earthen-ring]

@Uda-uldum

We did schedule our last Delve escapade…

We did, yeah. First time I scheduled anything in WoW in … oof… 8 years or so.
I’ve send a PM btw.

[Lactaid-firemaw]

Goldshire is the endgame.

[Gráinne-earthen-ring]

@Croil-kilrogg

Being able to progress and farm teir mogs without waiting 2 years and hoping they make the content be solo?

You really are dodging and wriggling out of a straight answer, over three askings now. I will assume you just love Delves, and so TWW is good for you, so far, and you feel that therefore it is best for everyone. Because I won’t bother to ask any more.

[Aylish-emerald-dream (Aylish)]

@Zeline-genjuros

Transmog? any transmo is for doing older content so basically play older expansion?

Tbh, I think we could use a lot more random mogs as quest rewards, alongside those zone sets they keep creating. Random rewards like we had in vanilla. A random Dokebi hat, a strange looking weapon, a shirt of some sort, a random kilt ++. I know they do a bit of this with the trading post now, but I don’t see why there can’t be more quests doing this too here and there.

[Croil-kilrogg]

I only do solo content not sure what your trying to grasp at or aha moment here… without delves I would have skipped the expac again as there is nothing to do otherwise…

[Dwagyr-argent-dawn]

Unfortunately subs and dollars not coming from us (I guess)
Game is more and more instanced. even NPC in open world can be instanced.
It’s all about long term currency sitting in capital.
Classic is for us but not going to pay full sub for it…

[Omnishock-mirage-raceway]

Ermm there is i belive its called lfr lol.
Anything above takes a modicum of thought abd prep whereas lfr is que and go.

All you really need to do is buy the gear off ah to get u going anr bamm you get to run with 24 other peeps who may or may not know what theyre doing.

[Croil-kilrogg]

LFR is not worth doing… you can the same rewards from weekly quests which are 100% chance… Only LFR was worth it was the first one Dragonsoul but ofc ppl cried about the loot being too good and we get what we have today.

[Omnishock-mirage-raceway]

Well maybe not but it allivates some bordom to do it and i always did pref a few lfr bits n bobs b4 i hit mythics

Yh i remember ds lfr was all shiny and new back then, my frst ever run was used to garner a trinket a missed out on with every run still dudnt get it but when i did yhat run everyone there had run it on normal / heroic modes.

Thesedays i dont have time for true raiding so i do mythic 0 + 5 rn. Depends on the toon im using.