i swear this is one of the reasons monks so insane right now (ww has this disarm too btw lol)
(whazz already 2800 cr in 3s as double monk ye seems balanced)
this is even more absurd considering u cant reduce disarm duration by playing relentless anymore since BfA (dunno why. just to punish warriors i suppose??)
solution: warrior’s disarm shud be 30 sec OR monk’s disarm shud be 1 min cd (or longer)
The spells might be the same except for the range, but the classes themselves are different from each other. You can’t just compare 2 spells. That is like asking why warrior fear has a longer cooldown than priests psychic scream.
Because, I assume, that’s how the class was initially designed : highly disruptive, made to be hated by all the other players. The class design has shifted since the game was first introduced of course but some things remain.
It’s the same as “why can mages spam poly when shamans have a cooldown on it” >> different classes, different design, shaman wasn’t designed to be a pain that doesn’t let you play the game like (frost) mages were.
One could also wonder why no class can beat a warrior to damage when they have more than 60% uptime on their target and can do a tiny but of cleaving. Well, again, warrior was designed to be the brute that deals ultra high damage when it does reach the target. So, you won’t beat him on that field if he can play in his strengths.
One could also wonder why DKs are a giga pain for casters >> designed as such, if you remember wotlk. They never really lost their anti caster kit.
Etc etc. Some things could be adjusted due to how the game is right now, but keep in mind that every class was designed a specific way and in the end if you remove THAT from them instead of tweaking the new stuff that makes them more OP than they should, you may as well remove the classes altogether.
But there are a few flaws with your points.
For starters, the far majority of melees play the exact same now. How do you difference an arms warrior from an assassination rogue? Both of them wish to maintain uptime and deal as much damage as possible, it just so happens to be that one also has better control and the other better cleave.
Apply bleeds → Apply MS → Do damage → Hit Storm Bolt/Kidney Shot on kill target. In that regard, there’s nothing seperating their design.
Yes, but not really. WW, DH and DK does beat out warrior on raw damage, the only reason why warrior can catch up is because of bleeds. After a match ends, the top damage of a warrior is always Deep Wounds.
The design where warrior would flatten you if he connects is gone. The design is far more backloaded now, doing setups with Sharpen Blade and pressuring with bleeds and small burst windows.
It is indeed an anti-caster class, but pre-nerf DS it was just as huge of a pain for melee. For a big portion of BFA, DK might still have designed to be anti-magic, but was essentially an omnicounter.
And if rogues wants to be the kings of control for melees, that is completely fine, but could we not also give them the sustained damage of a DK, strongest baseline MS and powerful defensives. That’s where the design falls flat.
You’re kings of control and elusiveness… but also sustained damage… and defensives… and maybe also mobility. Exaggeration maybe, but I hope you get what I’m saying at least.
This is the goal of 100% of the melee classes. More uptime NATURALLY meams more damage as melee, regardless of spec, class, and even game. The kit they have to interact with allies and enemies change according to a design, and that is normal.
What separates Warriors and Rogues in design … rogues were designed to be more disruptive, to have more CC, while warriors to have more damage. Look at the scoreboard of any decent team playing TSG/WarDh, the warrior out damages the rogue a fair bit everytime unless he’s bad.
Yeah ? So what ? That doesn’t count ? It doesn’t have to be healed maybe ? Damage is damage.
Maybe.
It was always like this yet people only complained lately because it was Assa and not sub.
Yes, but not all specs wish to do so. The design of some specs have differed in the past. Prime example is feral, who’d often CC you, apply bleeds and attempt to kite. Hit and run spec. Feral wants to do the same thing as warrior atm, have uptime so you can do big bite damage.
Every melee has the same goal with the current design, which hasn’t always been the case.
I’m going to make the assumption you agree with the majority of my post, because you’ve chosen not to answer to it or pick out bits of it and take it out of context.
This is what I’m replying to.
It was never about warrior vs everyone else.
And when it changes I’ll say the same thing for sub.
Control, utility, offense and defense are seperate categories. You should excelt at around 2 of them and be poor-decent at the others. Otherwise, you end up in the situation where everyone plays the same.
Survivabilty that WW has is better then war. Karma in most scenarios is a good as “die by the sword” but with 50% less cd. On top of the that monk has fort brew + Defuse Magic or Dampen Harm. War has nothing. Rallying cry is a joke compaer to this 2 if we assume you can prewall. From op mobility with port comes better survivability as well. Not to mention the offheals.
CC. WW has better cc then warrior. Not 5x better. but still noticeably better.
Dmg wise. I guess war has slightly higher sustained dmg, but he cant really sustain it, cause he gets kited by everything or is perma dieing all game. WW has a higher burst dmg.
can reduce CC effects on your teammates or increase their health
has an aoe cc like warrior (if you come with LS keep SW in mind!)
scales good with gear, because he doesnt but Warrior does
WW is for sure a very strong melee, but only a fool thinks Warrior isnt as strong!
About the question: Who knows, probably because its needed.
Ehm, have you ever thought about that they are kinda forced to play like this because their defense is a huge issue? Its not that they want to play like this, its more like that they have to play like this. Im pretty sure most ferals would also love to just switch into some kind of perma wall and keep going even with reduced damage.
Warrior has a lot mobility considering where their damage comes from.
Survivability Warrior has a 1 minute rally which is tbh underrated and is a huge saving tool. while also having defensive stance on no cd basically a 20% wall whenever you want on top of warbanner which is a huge anti cc tool + sharpen which is another huge utility spell. edit: forgot they also have disarm.
CC is WW slightly ahead but they’re very equal when you compare their utility
But what’s commonly overlooked is that Rally doesn’t grant you anything over a match. Multiple uses of Rally doesn’t add more value.
Imagine if Desperate Prayer would heal you, but then a few seconds later you take an equal amount back in damage. It doesn’t save you on its own.
Ww/mw/x is definitely very strong. I think most melee hate to face it too, partially due to double disarm. Lol how do people turn everything into rogue v x?
Why does rogue disarm cost energy but warrs doesnt cost rage? (Not a serious question)
The only reason why they’d do that was if they lost the head to head battle. If not they didn’t kite. All melees want uptime, but OF COURSE won’t die for it. Even as a warrior if staying in melee means you die within 2 globals you leap away you charge another guy or slow to blade storm away. Only if you’re stupid you remain in melee to die when you could have disengaged. There not one situation in the game in which a melee can have safe uptime and doesn’t take it.
Curious though that it didn’t happen pre Legion, or not as much at least, while rogues had much better survivability than they have now, more CC, and the same MS.