What are you talking about?
That you grasping at Blizzards lazy or bad writing as an excuse to dismiss what obviously should be seen as a narrative travesty, isnât some handy card to play when itâs convenient.
Wanna take that route? Ok.
Then you should start also shutting it with all those other issues Blizzard felt like handwaving with equal ease.
Including most of Cataclysm, and most recently, Teldrassil.
Wanna play that card? The point of this whole thread is mute. All of it was forgiven/hand waved/compensated down the line by several kinds of similar plots.
You donât like it?. Follow your own advice: Suck it up with what Blizzard âsignalsâ.
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Yes it is. And I have not done so anyway, thus your point is mute.
Yeah no, not going to do that.
When did I ever talk about anything being forgiven? You are just making up point I never brought up. Again: what are you talking about?
When did I ever tell anyone to âsuck it upâ?
I think yah should all chill.
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No, do not tell them to stop. This is fun.
No? Really?:
Again, wanna take the easy route of relying on bad writing? Fine.
Blizzard also thinks that the Alliance should forgive and excuse the Hordes aggression throughout Cataclysm.
Blizzard also thinks that the Alliance canât demand any kind of compensation or justice for Teldrassil, because they had the raid of Zuldazar.
Blizzard also thinks that the âexperimentationâ, âtortureâ, blighting across Gilneas, Southshore, and all those unsavoury things, are, best case scenario, to be blamed on either Garrosh or Sylvanas. Them alone.
And most importantly, Blizzard thinks that no matter what any Horde character does to the Alliance in this war, be that razing Brennadam to the ground, using Harringtonâs house as a bullseye for Azerite canyons, or whatever stuff writers come up withâŚyou are going to pardon it, deal with it, and maybe kiss Thralls feet when he and Saurfang save the Alliance from mean Olâ Sylvanas.
In short, want to take the route of the Word of God? Ok. But donât try and nitpick when itâs convenient for you to call it forth.
Use it consistently, and you lose whatever ground you are grasping at with threads like these.
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You funny.
Unlike you.
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Gasps A human Paladin with a sense of humour?! The stars must have aligned!
Alas, that you are not in my target demographic. I grew tired of Paladin memes a little while ago. That Liadrin thoughâŚ
No⌠Where was there any bad writing? Where do you get this from.
Provide citations for all of this.
Oh wait, gave you to much credit. I see that all of this is just going on inside your head. Nurse, he is getting worse!
Again, all this occured in your head.
Why are you warning me of this, when I have done no such thing?
Sir, are you having conversations with the voices in your head and letting it spill into reality again?
And I noticed you never provided a citation of me saying people had to âsuck it upâ, so I guess that was another lie.
Really??
How many people were held accountable for what happened throughout Cataclysm?
How many were trialed for it?
Regarding Teldrassil, there was a literal interview.
Need more sourcing?
Blizzard does seem to want you to quit whining aboutâŚwhat? 80%? 90% of this threads premise?
Oh? âYour complaints arenât valid because Blizzard villainised this character to show you how wrong you areâ.
Yeah. Sure.
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You are refusing to provide citations and trying to shift the burden of proof onto me. Not a good look hon.
Where?
More would imply you had already given a source, which you have not. Lazy bum.
No, that is you.
What are you talking about?! Are you legit insane? Where do these random quotes from other conversations pop out from?
Was there a point there, or just another one of your crazy, empty rants?
How many posts have you made so far? You have yet to give even an inkling what made you go on this hissy fit, so let me ask again: What are you talking about?
No. I just didnât find necessary to quote an entire book called âWar Crimesâ to prove that Blizzards aim was for the Alliance to use Garrosh as a literal scapegoat for all that went wrong in Cataclysm and be done with the ranting.
Want to know more? You can read the book.
Yeah, sorry, but wonât expand on what at this point is common knowledge. You can look it up if you wish.
Keywords being âNight elves had vengeance for Teldrassil with the raid of Dazarâalorâ.
Cba to browse whats been a recurrent and trending topic for months, for stupidityâs sake. Feigned or otherwise.
(Same for the rest).
Now it is clear that you are crazy. Nothing you said there was of any relevance to my question. I never even mentioned Garrosh or any scapegoats for war crimes. You are not even coherent, you just write down the first thing that comes to mind, regardless of if it makes sense.
See, the problem, as illustrated above, is that you regularly lie, make things up, and struggle to read things coherently. I do not trust you when you claim there is an interview stating those things, because I know you like to make things up when it is convenient, and I am not going to go on a wild goose chase to find something that likely does not exist, and even if it does, almost assuredly contains none of what you claim it does. You have not earned the right to have people believe you at face value.
How about you do the bare minimum and provide a citation for your claims, instead of hiding behind your laziness? That is all I ask, and you pretend like I am asking you to post an entire book. I ask for a single link, that is it. Stop being so damn sensitive.
So, you are not going to explain why you started whining to me? You just did it for the sake of whining, am I to take it? Guess nothing more can be expected from Sylvanasâ #2 bootlicker.
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No? Whatâs this?:
Why did you ask of me to expand on it then?
AaahâŚthe ad hominem. When no longer can you hide behind a facade of stupidity or ignorance and instead try and dodge the bullet with a whataboutism.
Yeah, this is done.
Take your hypocrisy elsewhere.
Want to complain about how youâd like the narrative to go? Then donât bring lazy or bad writing to the table as foundation for your responses.
It might undermine whatever basis you have.
Peace out.
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That is two citations that have nothing to do with Garrosh or scapegoats. Which any literate and non-crazy person would have seen. You did a good job pointing it out buddy.
Because I wanted you to prove your assertions? No jump topic to Garrosh and scapegoating.
You just said a lot of words you thought sounded smart and jumbled them together in a incoherent and irrelevant mess.
Ad hominem arguments are valid when the argument is about the person in questionâs character. There was no whataboutism involved, you do not seem to know what that means (shocker!), and there was no hypocrisy involved.
What happened was that you got angry over nothing, started making wild, unsubstantial claims about what is going on in Blizzardâs minds, failed to provide citations, realized you had made a fool of yourself, and tried to save face by acting like a moron and just barraging me with irrelevant anecdotes. Very clever. And I mean that sincerely. For you, this was very advanced.
OkâŚ? I have never done this, and had no plans to, so why are you sayinâŚoh right, distracting people from the fact that you have no citations by just spouting random accusations.
Yeah, that is kind of the topic of the thread.
Thats Zarao for you.
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Fear not! I am considered worse than Zarao and a signature was offered with that declaration. 
A most grievous insult to almost any sentient. 
Sure mate. Sure.
What lost you exactly? Ad hominem or whataboutism?
Want me to link the definitions and point at the phrases you said that exemplify such? Sure you do. Here:
1.)
Upon facing the book title I had to spell out in order to tear down the stupidity facade:
Definition for âAd Hominemâ:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Typically refers to a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself
Act stupid. Insist on a source. Is provided with such sourceâŚand tries to deter it by going on a tangent.
2.)
Letâs take a look at âWhataboutismâ implies:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Attempts to discredit an opponentâs position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument
HmmmâŚ
Again, going on a tangent that shifts your postion and moves the goal posts from âProvide me a sourceâ, to some, rather laughable, judgemental position about the poster.
Are these terms incompatible? Doesnât seem so.
ââââ-
Regarding the rest, and given your history, I doubt it makes much difference to further elaborate on any substantial or relevant lore note. But your post is right there for anyone to read.
You went from wanting proof regarding Blizzard focusing all blame regarding Cataclysm on a single character, to dismissing or acting surprised (to the point you try and argue itâs unrelated info 
) when someone points out the epitome of scapegoating that is the War Crimes novel.
God, this bit was just to tempting to reply 
Last time, I swear.
Ps:
Yeah, donât want to delve much on what a pointless comment with close to zero discussion value, says about the one posting it.
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Then I apologise, and as stated, I agree wholeheartedly that having a âgo-toâ response of Execution is ridiculous.
No. That would be the population of Quelâthalas. 90% of the remnants now call themselvesâŚ?
In which case, youâre really not. âKnife-earâ is a term from a different video game franchise. I mean that -literally(In the correct sense of the word) is the case.
Iâll agree with you on Gnomes, they pretty much are the only âGood Guysâ Alright, not Sicco Thermaplugg, he was a douche, The rest of them? Good Guys, want to argue, fight me in the pub carpark.
Lets take this piece at a time.
Sylvanas? Baddie?
Well yes, of course she is, she does horrible things to people, she does horrible things to her own people. SHeâs just horrible. She makes zero sense as Warchief but eh, we gotta have an evil Warchief given that people complained that Thrall was actually reasonable and nice.
Saurfang: Evil? Thatâs trickier. Was he Evil? Iâd say so, yeah. -Is- he Evil? No. Not really. He did some horrible things in his youth, things he regrets, loathes, and regards himself as shameful and abhorrent. Heâs a repentant sinner.20 year old Saurfang was a douche, 60 year old Saurfang has an incredibly well adjusted moral compass.
Rokâhan: We have no idea. We genuinely donât, We donât know if he is a good person, or a bad person, weâve got nothing to work with, so Iâm not going to pretend either way, that we do.
Baine: He is a good guy. I donât -care- how much some Horde Fans whinge about him betraying the Horde, he hasnât actually betrayed the core values of the Horde. Baine is a good person. Heâs Anduin, with horns and hooves. In fact, he is exactly that! HIs father was ruler, he was unexpectedly cast into this position, and he is trying to just be a good person.
Sylvanas weâve covered. Eeech. She Bad.
Lorâthemar Theron: HeâsâŚnot actually a bad guy? I mean he is a war hero of his people, he was never part of Anasterian pulling out of the Alliance, He seems to really care about his people, and want the best for them, he even goes to his enemies and says âYou know what? Sunwell is Fixed, you can come homeâ He even talks to -JAINA ThemostinsanepersoninAzeroth.ever. Heâs like âLook, Varian, Shiz got a bit mad, but we can talk, lets have a chat about this ideaâ âOMG JAINA DID WHAT!â
Essentially the subplot of MoP
So, Jastor Gallywix.
Is he Evil?
This is the trickiest.
Heâs not actually evil. No, really, hear me out here.
Heâs not âEvilâ. He is venal, self-serving, hyper-capitalist, selfish. These are all bad qualities in a person, But heâs not actually Evil. I mean I hate the character, I hate him, but heâs not Evil. Know why?
Because he can know Love. He has an object of his romantic affections, that every year he sends a present to, in the hope she will return said affections. Know what she sends back? A Letter Bomb.
Heâs not Evil. Heâs a horrible person! Utterly Horrible, He is not Nice at all, but he isnât actually Evil. I mean he is scum, Iâm not arguing that for a second, but he is just scum, not evil scum, if that makes sense.
Ji Firepaw:
Câmon, seriously? Heâs just enthusiastic, heâs not Evil!
Mayla Highmountain: Sheâs not Evil!
Thalyssra: Sheâs not Evil. Theyâre both like âX makes sense given what I know, lets go with Xâ Thatâs not Evil.
They were kind of all turned into Forsaken. Iâm not sure they would be running off and telling tales.
Fun Fact, They attack you. Gotta love that Kirin Tor Neutrality, right?
No, IâmâŚpretty sure, by Blizzardâs own words, that the Alliance did kill the initial ambassadors from the Forsaken. Not Teleport, just outright Kill. Iâm also pretty certain they invaded the Neutral nation of Quelâthalas.
No, that is why -None- of them did it. ThatâŚjust didnât happen. Not a single one of those scared Alliance aligned civilians (Civilians- Not War Criminals) later takes part on the Isle of Thunder. That just does not Happen. Try again.
You know you are being a stereotype yourself? The funny thing, Youâre trying to stereotype me to a demographic I donât belong to, whereas I am getting the distinct impression you are in fact a BoomerâŚGiven the years of birth.
Boring? Possibly. Boomer? Get it right E-Boomer. Itâs Xâer if you actually want to go for insults. Rant? Dear Gods above and below, you think -that- was a Rant, Iâd say where have you lived for the last few decades but I think that is becoming rather rapidly apparent!
Weâll leave aside the fact you gave me a female name, I donât take offence at that, and thank you for the notice that I am currently flammable Iâm not wild about the idea of being combustible but will take that under advisement.
Yes, I read that also, Iâm just a little too young for Alzheimers to be a likelihood, being Gen X, not either type of Boomer, though in fairness, Gen Y Boomers are too young for Alzheimers to be a likely occasion either. I am well aware, sadly, of the vicissitudes that age can bring upon a person, thankfully I have avoided being overweight, and male pattern baldness, So I am pretty good with that. Also, Iâm not writing so much, Iâm actually recording Voice Acting work, It is similar, but different.
Yes I did. Are we stereotyping a species by the actions of one member of that species? Thatâs dangerous territory for someone playing Alliance.
As a Body Politic? No, not really. The Horde as a body politic is not especially justified. Individual Species, yes, a body politic? No.
You seem to think I am trying to justify the Horde as a body politic, in its actions? I am not, and have never tried to do so. The Horde is pretty damned nasty and grim. Thatâs actually why I play Horde, to RP as the âGood Guy working for an Evil Causeâ Its a concept that fascinates me. It is Oskar Schindler, it is Adolf Galland, Ernst Udet, Manfred von Richthofen. Its being the -BAD- guy, who is actually a decent and nice person, but works for a horrible organisation. The Horde is -BAD- I am not questioning that. Iâm saying that sometimes the Alliance is Bad. That happens tooâŚ
I think âGenocideâ is a little bit more than âsome bad thingsâ but fair enough.
I also like to think that my moral compass is pretty well balanced, as it happens. I do not break the law (OK, occasionally I will jump on the train for a three minute train journey without paying) , but I do not shoplift, steal, commit acts of bodily harm, or indeed any sort of indignity towards another person. I donât drive, because I am Epileptic and if I had a seizure whilst driving, I could kill people by accident. I donât do anything that could, by action, or inaction, harm another person. Feck, Iâm practically living by Asimovâs âThree rules of Roboticsâ
Iâd say my Moral Compass is actually a lot more balanced than many peoples.
I can -guess-, given your style of debate. Iâm going with between 18 and 26. (You donât have to answer, though I am curious as to whether I was right within those parameters)
Clearly not as much as Echo-Boomers have with reading comprehension.
Waves flag
The One Generation still alive that -canât- be classified as a Boomer! I mean, sure, there are probably some Pre-Boomers left alive, (though given that my motherâs generation are the original Boomers this isâŚwithout wishing ill upon my parent still alive, in their late 60âs to 90âs, highly unlikely! ) and obviously the Kids of the Echo-Boomers (Or Millennials) are not Boomers, Not unless we re-categorise things again, (Apparently they are Generation Z, but given they are not even adult yet, nobody has really kind of categorised them)
Anyway, think youâll find, that what you mistakenly classify as âBoomersâ (and ironically miss the point by picking the only demographic that such a term does not apply to) are -exactly- the demographic that made sarcasm a form of public comedy.
I donât need to google âsarcasmâ. I grew up with it. My Generation refined it, and made massive money out of selling it to both sets of Boomers. Iâm OK with Sarcasm to be honest, Iâd give you examples of the comedians, of the TV Shows, of pretty much everything But it would be a cultural examination of âDad punched me in the face, whilst my son Shivved me in the back!â
Why not just âEvery Generation thinks they had it harder?â
Monty Python? Generation X, mate.
Terminator? Generation X
Rocky Horror Picture Show? Generation X
Reeves and Mortimer? Generation X
Ben Elton? Stephen Fry, Hugh Laurie, Rob Newman and David Baddiel? The Height of the performance era of Morecambe and Wise?
Are you -seriously- trying to tell me what Sarcasm is?
I mean Ironically, that -could- be seen as SarcasmâŚ
Essentially I think the problem here, is that most people apart from the most deluded are like âThe Horde is Badâ âYes, Theyâre Bad! I play Alliance, and I am telling you they are bad!â âYeah, I âŚget that, the Horde is pretty badâ âNO! That is not enough! I need you to tell me the Horde is Evil!â âWell, thatâs not really going to happen, I think they are bad, and have some incredibly Evil people in the organisation, butâŚâ âNO! I need you to say the Horde is Evil!â âAlright, lets explain why some of the actions of -both- sides could be viewed as Evil?â âNO! The Horde is Evil!â âRight, no, wait up. Do we think that killing a lot of civilians is morally shaky?â âOH I SEE! Its all about Taurajo or Dalaran, as if the Horde has never done anything wrong!â
âNo, itâŚit really isnât? No one is saying the Horde has done no wrong, Itâs done plenty of wrong, now if youâll justâŚâ
âNO! The Horde is Evil! Say it!â
âRight. Whew. OK, LetâsâŚright, Lets just get this clear. Are you saying, that Taurajo, which is pretty much the Trail of Tears, and Dalaran, that is pretty much Krystallnacht are OK?â
âTHE HORDE IS EVIL!â
âRight yes, weâve covered this, like, a lot, like on a bi-weekly basis, but are you saying that Taurajo and-â
âThe Horde is Evil, you people always go on about Taurajo!â
âRight, yes, because it was a pretty Evil act echoed by one in our own historyâ
âNO! THe Horde is Evil! Not the Allianceâ
âRight, OK, it is possible, for both things to do nasty things, yeah? We have seen that a lot in historyâ
âNO! Only the Horde is Evil!â
âRight, just let me clarify here, are we going anywhere other than âThe Horde is Evil?ââ
âBut the Horde -IS EVIL-â
âRight, OKâŚLets move swiftly on to a sensible discussion, before we revisit this nonsense next Friday.â
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