Pfft, at least I am honest to myself and to others. You are one of the worst persons I’ve ever met, and I’m not joking. You don’t care about others, you ridicule them, you change the context and your own opinion.
I’ll admit that I confused the attitude of the Forsaken in regards to the Grimtotem and that I forgot the exact quote, but I went out of my way to prove myself right, and you just scrambled some irrelevant passages together to disprove the obvious, something that was already very clear from the start.
You go out of your way to win any possible argument, and you don’t care how dishonest or venomous you have to be to win it. Your kind is what makes these forums the cesspit that it currently is.
For all our sakes, leave these godforsaken forums forever.
I awaited that interview, because you claimed it said the Night Elves had their vengeance. That is your wording. Why you made it, matters not. The fact that you claimed it, and it turned out false, it all that is needed to prove you a liar.
“Grasp at wording”, are you listening to yourself? You are the one who started talking about vengeance, you made the claim, and I proved you wrong! If all you have left is to repeat this absurdity, you should realize you lost the argument.
And then you made another post, claiming it.
No. It is entirely different. They talked about balancing victories, you talked about justice and vengeance.
I am not bailing out. I am pointing out that you made a claim, which turned out to be untrue. You cannot bail this out by disregarding your own claims, cherry-picking which of your claims are to be considered, and dismiss you dishonesty by claiming people are getting hung up in words, when they are disproving the exact wording you used! You made the claim that Blizzard saw the event as vengeance for Teldrassil. If I illustrate that is not true, then I am not “grasping at words”, you are just being a pathetic liar trying to backpedal out of being exposed.
Spin it however you want. You claimed Blizzard used the event as vengeance for Teldrassil and that they believe the Alliance cannot demand justice after it. The interview does not support this. That is not me “grasping at words”. That is me pointing out that the words you claimed were said, were never said. Like, you should understand that which words being said matter a lot. Else you can just look at any text and claim is asserts something it does not, which, to be fair, you already do.
I think I will link this conversation to the off-topic thread later, to humiliate you further.
Its not me the one that butts into a conversation with a post with close to zero discussion value, just to throw mud at the one whose opinion i disagree with. Not the one that tags someone’s point of view depending on how i personally feel about the person making said statement.
You don’t like reading opinions different to yours? You don’t like having someone challenging your own point of view? To the point you feel like throwing around moral judgement over the person behind the character?
Mate, i’m not the one being “venomous”.
If the answer to dispar points of views and what you perceive as argumental fallacies, makes you automatically feel the need to be the chorus with stuff that attacks the person directly, instead of the arguments, i’m afraid the one with the toxic behaviour its you. Not me.
At least Wimbert, who up-voted this hearty post you just made (), tackled the issue with something akin to a refutal to a forum topic/argument. (Which was dully noted by the way, in fact made me go over the interview again to check if the initial impression derived from that first forum discussion/reaction was unfounded or not).
As much as I don’t really take things personally, this seemed rather excessive for a forum game. You should probably look into it.
PS: Not gonna bother going any further with that Sereluna post. Its absurd how it has devolved to the cheapest round of spinning over semantics.
Yeah, its what usually happens with an opinion. It might change over time.
Not as fluidly as you imply it happens with mine, mind you.
As for the attitude…that’s harder to see. Specially given its subjective and depends on the eye of the beholder.
Being unnerved by a “headstrong” position, sure causes discomfort to some (specially if they take it personally). But the extra step of charging against the person does generate a more toxic environment than it should.
Without looking far, and keeping it to the last 30 posts, you personally have taken part or cheered by up-voting, behaviour that far from tackling the subject at hand, simply attacked the one posting about it (me in this case). Don’t you feel that’s toxic too?.
Not judging or feeling personally attacked by it (its a game), but…maybe you should look into it.
As much as i’m usually quite headstrong or vehement in my “opinions” (and of course, wrong on plenty occasions), going the extra mile to the point you feel the urge to gang on it and start hurling mud at the person, seems like going to far. Let alone that last post
Don’t want to invoke the “Forum Police” or whatever you want to call it, but dude, that other post was bordering on being reportable.
Do not take it personally, but as much as you feel like you have me on your back, i swear i don’t feel half as strongly about you (or anyone around here for that matter).
Its just a forum for god’s sake.
Want a virtual conciliatory handshake? Totally serious. No hard feelings.
Straight up lies to people. Posts sources proving that he is a liar. Still takes the moral high ground, insisting he did noe lie because his critic is “grasping at words”. Not a venomous personality.
I love this idea that you can literally state a proposition, have that proposition disproven, with your exact words, and then defend yourself with the idea that the other person is too pedantic over semantics.
Zarao: “Blizzard claimed A.”
Me: “Actually, as shown by the source you provided, they did not.”
Zarao: “Wow! Why are you so pendatic! Just because I claimed they said A, and they did not, does not mean I was wrong! Sure, they did not say A, but they said something different, and that is basically the same thing. You must be really desperate if you try to refute the claim “Blizzard claimed A” by showing that they in fact did not claim A. You are just grasping at words! Why on earth did you think A was relevant?! Just because I said A, does not mean I have to prove A. Words have whichever meaning I need them to have at the moment.”
I wish there were a report function for lying. Zarao would be gone before he could come up with another defense for Sylvanas commiting genocide.
I don’t feel like I was toxic. I was telling you exactly how I thought about you. I never meant to insult or harrass you, I didn’t use any words to do so either. I think it was a mature post, even if it was a bit on the dramatic side.
Nevertheless, I meant it. I was being honest. I want others to be that as well. If you think I crossed the line, go ahead, report it. It’s your right to.
Yes, I did mean for you to take it personally. In fact, it was personal. But it’s not an insult. I hope you understand that.
I genuinely did give you many chances, I showed you respect and I admitted when I was wrong (I just did that, where I conceded that I confused tacitly and outright). But I’ve never seen any honesty or integrity from you, and I doubt I ever will. It disappoints me, but oh well. I mean, even here, Sereluna shows that you were lying, but you aren’t responding to that.
But I don’t want to talk about it too much. The reason why I did write that post was because it was a good timing and a good moment for it, not because I am trying to harass you or anything. I think we both made our points well enough by now, although you are always free to tell me what you think about me, in all honesty.
It is an argument about the wording, because you used that very specific wording. If you claim “Blizzard say “Vengeance””, then it is important whether or not they said “Vengeance”, or anything synonymous. The fact that I am holding you responsible for what you said is not “grasping at words”. You only find it not worth responding to, because you know you got called out, and refuse to admit it.
Like, I am not asking for an interview were they specifically use the word “vengeance”. I am asking for an interview in which, as you claimed, Blizzard stated that the battle for Dazar’alor was meant as vengeance/revenge/justice/payback for the Night Elves. That is not what you provided. You provided an interview where they claimed they saw the battle as a way to balance victories, not give payback to the night elves specifically for what happened at Teldrassil. This is not about words, this is about you conflating concepts.
I mean, you literally used the phrase “keywords”. That strongly indicates it is meant to be taken literally.
We use the word “knife-ear” for years. And I don’t intend to stop, my knife-eared friend.
Don’t forsaken have free will? I thought they do. And thinking no one knows about Ambermill when the risen magi (unwillingly) fought against Alliance is first class denial.
Why wouldn’t they attack the butcher of Ambermill?
Their queen killed the Alliance Grand Marshal in Lordaeron and probably massacred the rest of Lordaeronian forces. With the aid of demons, none the less. Actions have consequences. Plus, forsaken are monsters, as Blizzard loves to show us whenever possible.
Might have been scared back then, but I’m pretty sure majority would be okay with it after Rhonin’s death and the genocide of Ambermill. Normal human being would be, anyway.
The Alliance had some kind of “brush fire”, and they needed some sort of response to that. And not only a warfront.
These latest posts may have lost the sight of the crux of this derailment, but I’ll remind you that the above came as a response of you stating that throwing Hathorel at players as something to kill, meant Blizzard wanted players to consider the Sunreavers as the bad guys.
If the next question after them answering “Dazar’alor was a response for Teldrassil”, is “So, you want a balance in bad things happening?”, an affirmative response signals that they are weighing those two events with about the same importance. They literally said a few second later that they wanted to have some other sort of “meaningful” event like the one with Teldrassil.
This is signalled once again in 8.2 when they had Saurfang and Shaw throwing at each other the two things. With about the same weight.
If the characters that act as mouthpieces for the writers also signal these equivalencies, it’s pretty clear what Blizzards intention is regarding the treatment of said events.
Was there a point to this? In the exact quote you made, it is never stated that the battle was meant to be the vengeance of the Night Elves, which is what you claimed, nor does it indicate Blizzard thinks this means the Alliance cannot demand any justice from them. You cannot bail out on your lies by providing the actual citations.
There is no way we can say that Night Elves got their vengeance with DA. How can it? It hardly involved them.
The similarities between Darnassus and DA is that it did anger both primary races involved towards their opposing factions, but aside from that, as Shandris says “Their must be vengeance for Teldrassil.”
TLDR for these posts:
Don’t try and excuse bad/forced writing by referencing bad/forced narrative decisions.
Blizzard can start forcing their hand to shoehorn a forceful conclusion to any story.
Arguing that players should consider Sunreavers as the bad guys for that time Blizzard felt like throwing Hathorel under Jainas bus, is about as disingenuous as the time Garrosh was scapegoated by Blizzard for most of Cataclysm, or Zuldazar was brought as an equatable example to Teldrassil.