Why peace is not an option


#123

Topkek. Find out how to find it out before talking nonsense.


(Blunderhoof) #124

I upvoted his comment, why…?

Because people indeed cherry pick what is bad writing and what isn’t, when it suits them, and since I can read and did read all posts, That point he made was the simple truth.

I also found it astonishing how he gets the flak, where your idol Sereluna is basicly parroting the bad narrative and people who were insulting to other poster’s real life qualities / problems get a free pass.

How demeaning…


(Zarao) #125

My faithful mind-servant speaks wisely.

He shall be the one that brings forth pride to The Upside Down.

(Stranger Things reference, do NOT confuse it with Old God stuff).

Ps:And I’m joking Minairia don’t take it personal.
But, as it has already been pointed out, Blunderhoof is a different player.


(Leíá) #126

Oh, I thought we were dealing with Kalibas 2.0. My apologies.

But I still fail to see how DA is also vengeance for the Kaldorei, when DA still stands and Darnassus is still destroyed. Biased idiots, indeed.


#127

At this point, you should realize I can see the things you write.

Nowhere in that post with the phrase “keywords” did you mention anything about a thread (Why peace is not an option). I asked you where the interview could be found, you told me to look it up myself, using the keywords: “Night elves had vengeance for Teldrassil with the raid of Dazar’alor”. You did not mention anything about a thread talking about the interview. You are lying again.

This is further confirmed by this post: Why peace is not an option

Where you respond to the demand for a source that the Battle of Dazar’alor was revenge for Teldrassil with the source in question.

I did not “mix it up with anything”. I confronted you, with your own claim, which you proved wrong with your own source, proving that you lied.

Your idol Zarao straight up lies, and refuses to admit it when confronted by it. I find it astonishing how you complain about him getting “flak” when he engages in such dishonest behaviour. Can you guys make a single post without proving yourself massive hypocrites?

If you are going to complain about toxicity, remain consistent instead of pointing fingers selectively. Defending his blatant dishonesty, while criticising others just makes you look like a hypocritical tool.

Also, where have I “parroted the bad narrative”? Considering how much you are willing to suck up to Zarao, I have a feeling that you, much like him, like to just make stuff up, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you actually misunderstood what I wrote, thereby making this claim. So please, show me where I did this, or prove yourself as dishonest as Zarao.


(Leíá) #128

I am still trying to work out, at which point DA was vengeance for Teldrassil and that the Night Elves seeking vengeance for it, is very bad against the Horde and they should not do it.

Sorry, but I am absolutely baffled by this.

Also, Seraluna is not my idol. Indeed, he and I have had disagreements before and they have been resolved amicably and with respect. It just so happens that he is just right in this instance


(Zarao) #129

You left out the next paragraph:

True. Didn’t say thread.
Called it “topic”.

And about the “straight up lying”, I wouldn’t really emphasise on it that much if I were you if your only claim for such is based around grasping at wording or interpretation.
Remember, this all started because you decided that killing Hathorel meant Blizzard wanted us to consider Sunreavers as the bad guys.

But anyway, all has been said. Point has been made.

@Blunderhoof, sorry for being dragged into this. I’ll try to leave it here (my will is weak, but I’ll try), you should probably do the same.


(Leíá) #130

And you have been proven wrong.
Admit it, move on.

I have.


#131

That paragraph was all about your laziness, not where I should look. You literally used the phrase “keywords” when describing the interview. You cannot back-pedal by claiming you were actually talking about a thread, when nowhere in your post did you mention any thread.

Furthermore, in this post Why peace is not an option

you respond to the demand for a source that the Battle of Dazar’alor was revenge for Teldrassil with the source in question, proving you viewed you accepted the charge about your assertion.

That is absurd. You made very specific claims about what was said in the interview. If the words you claimed where spoken, were never spoken, and I prove this by proving those words were never spoken, then I am not “grasping at words”, you are just a liar. Like, you do realize words have meaning right? None of the things you claimed were said in the interview, were said. That is a fact. This “grasping at words” defense, which by the way is a lowly intelligent way of phrasing, is just pathetic. Words have meaning. Which words you use to express an idea is important. You cannot equate the meaning of two different words, just because you want to.

I never claimed they wanted us to believe this. Another lie.


(Zarao) #132

:face_with_raised_eyebrow:


(Blunderhoof) #133

I fail to see what yet another poster has to do with any of this…
As for the other point, those were never my words, so not much of an apology if you’re going to call me an idiot for words that were never mine, in the same post.

If agreeing with Zarao equates to ‘sucking up’, you nor Leia shouldn’t be casting stones then, right?

In this very thread you said that

Even Blizzard thinks the Sunreavers are the bad guys. As they should.

In the Baine rescue cinematic thread, you were trying to ad length justify how Sylvanas attacking Thunder Bluff made any sense in this narrative, you also tried to justify how she would have the ‘army’ on her side, which didn’t make any sense either.

Past and present you tried to justify Baine’s reaction to Taurajo and the following siege of Mulgore and him now being buddy buddy with one of the people who allowed those attacks to happen…

You also justified any and all of Sylvanas’ actions as in perfectly within character…cos she dumb.

On the other hand, you found that the kaldorei getting blitzkrieged by the Horde in their own foresthome was bad writing, you also thought the burning of teldrassil was bad writing.

I’m pretty sure that’s why Zarao brought up Warcrimes’ Garrosh, since he was the scapegoat for the all the crimes commited by the Horde who then got a free pass - Is that bad writing?

And we legitimitly wonder if Sylvanas’ will also bear all the Horde’s crimes this time, will it be good writing or bad writing this time? You know, since you and Sylvanas is pretty personal, I get the feeling.

Also, Seraluna is not my idol. Indeed, he and I have had disagreements before and they have been resolved amicably and with respect. It just so happens that he is just right in this instance

Nor is Zarao mine, I just happen to 1. agree with his stance and 2. I find it an injustice to lay all crap on one guy while others, who were actually being, what I consider toxic and venomous, get a free pass.


#134

Are you honestly this incompetent? Nowhere in that quote did I say that Blizzard

You just proved yourself a liar again! Do you ever get tired of making a fool of yourself?

No I did not. This is completely made up. I see the apple does not fall far from the tree.

Him not making his nation a bigger target while they were facing internal strife in a period where they could not fully the Warchief while his people had little interest in vengeance is already justified. And he s not buddy with anyone involved in the attack. Another lie from a Zarao fan.

No. That is nothing like me at all.

Yea, because it required all the characters to be lowered to Sylvanas levels of intelligence.

Not a bad idea, but badly written.

What?

This is blatantly false. Zarao is straight up lying to people, yet you say nothing against him.


(Leíá) #135

I never said you did. Take that up with Seraluna.

Patience runs thin when one flip flops over what he said.

So night elves got their vengeance and do not deserve anything else?
Oh do us a favor.

Check what he and his alts post and we will find common ground.

Where did I ever say they were?
Stop getting offended over nothing to do with you.


(Zarao) #136

So…Blizzard apparently thinks they are villains, but don’t want us to believe they are villains?

Why were you pointing it out to Brigante then?
There is a point where wording can no longer be used as an excuse. The context of the conversation matters.

As much as you taking wording out of it in order to have a grasping straw to hold on to, the fact above is relevant.

Or are you going to say that when you were arguing about how the writers thought to make them bad guys, that meant players weren’t supposed to get that memo and should not consider them such?

You see, when you use bad/forceful writing as a valid argument in a thread that’s had its plea addressed in plenty other forceful or bad narratives (that are complained about in this same topic), people will point it out.

And no matter how much you grasp at wording, semantics, or whatever.
The fact that Blizzard equated Teldrassil with Zuldazar, and how they scapegoated Garrosh for Cataclysm, are the kind of similar forceful and bad writing styles that go along the lines of having apparently the Sunreavers turned into villains for Jainas plot to shine (while trying to bring the Purge plot to an abrupt conclusion).

If the above got criticism, from plenty people including yourself, it reeks of hypocrisy to get a hold on to bad writing as an argument when it “favours” your stance.


#137

Those are entirely different concepts yes.

Why are you asking? Do you think the answer is going to change anything? You claimed I believed something about Blizzard’s intention, tried proving it with a citation of me, and I never said that thing. You lied and exposed yourself.

True. However, the context you want to give the conversation does not matter. Here is the context: In the Baine rescue mission, the Sunreavers act like villains. Blizzard thought of those characters as villains in that scenario.

This has never happened. You are just making things up. This means nothing.

No, I am saying that how Blizzard consider them does not equate to me claiming what Blizzard wants us to think. Just think of Sylvanas. She is a war criminal far worse than Garrosh, yet none of this was mentioned in MoP.

LIke, I never claimed I believed killing Hathorel meant Blizzard wanted us to consider the Sunreavers as the bad guys. Hathorel never died! I never even mentioned his name! You lied!

Okay? I never did this, so are are you talking about it? Blizzard writing a vengeful Sunreaver as a villain, is not bad narrative. You just do not like it.

That is ridiculous. It is completely consistent to have a Sunreaver align with sinister forces to enact vengeance on Jaina. That is not bad writing. That is just writing something that could exist in the setting.

Having Garrosh as the scapegoat is a good idea, it just simply was not written in a convincing manner, as all of Sylvanas’s crimes were ignored.

As for Teldrassil/Dazar’alor. That is meta-narrative, not part of the narrative. That is not bad writing, that is fanservice. Gosh, you are ignorant of literature.

Here is the thing: Angry Sunreaver attacking Jaina is not bad writing. It is completely sensible in context. Stop calling everything you do not like about the story “bad writing”.

I see you stopped trying to flail pathetically about “word graspin” to defend yourself from the proof that you lied, so I take it you acknowledge you lied to me, yet are to dishonest to admit it.


#138

No. It just doesn’t.

And?

Really, you wanted to argue with word of god, now you have to try to interpret the words to make your case that they might have meant that. You’ve already lost that point just let it go this one time. I certainly will, and will mute this thread for that.


#139

Let’s be completely honest here.

Zarao has been found to be lying, and has been called out for it. Both me and Leia used that moment to discuss Zarao’s attitude. I don’t think any of us have been venomous or toxic in that regard - I spoke my mind, but did not attempt to insult or harass or slander Zarao. I was being honest with him, as honest as I could be, and I’m glad he took it in a mature way as well.

I think it’s only good if people are being called out for their attitude. You know that as well, since you do it too now and then. But I think that there is a clear line between being (brutally) honest in a way that is not insulting, and being venomous. I don’t think I crossed that line, but you are of course free to argue the opposite.

Nor does anyone get a free pass here. Sereluna doesn’t, since she was called out my multiple people (Jan’zi and me, among others) for going too far to Brigante.


(Araphant) #140

Could we like, stop this? Everyone said what they have to say, the drama is literally spinning for its own sake at the moment.


(Blunderhoof) #141

No, you didn’t nor where you the one i ment regarding toxic and venomous…
I perfectly understand disagreeing with ones points or opinions, but I don’t see the necessity to attack someone on a personal level, I also don’t see the reasoning behind calling people agreeing with another, “Sucking up” or whatever…as Some people here seem to insist on.

My sense of justice made me step in here, Zarao has his faults sure, we all do, especially in “heated discussions”. I saw him getting singled out, i couldn’t and can’t agree. You’re right, twisting facts and “lieing” or “flipflopping” score bad points…I really(!) Don’t think he’s the only one doing that from my point of view.
That and ultimately, people are allowd to have their opinions and word them, and ofcourse they will be challenged.
Bottom line was certain people cherry pick wich parts of this narrative are bad writing…which is the truth( @ Leia - that was the stance I agreed with. Not if the Night Elves got enough recompense or such)

Anyway, Araphant is right…this Is degrading and I will stop it here. This whole back and forth now is meaningless.


(Zarao) #142

Lying over what??? Really, this is rather annoying.

This argument has been twisted beyond recognition by nitpicking wording and phrases across several paragraphs.
To the point it cross-referenced posts with hours of difference in an attempt at deflecting the obvious issue that was called out.

Yeah, Blizzard never said “Vengeance”…but I wasn’t talking about them when referenced such word. As much as some wished I were.

Yeah, the interview wasn’t literally equating both events…but still weighted them as comparable things regarding narrative development and the balance issue. To the point it’s again brought on comparable terms ingame.
(I mean, the had Saurfang and Shaw commenting on it, and Jaina addressing such with about the same importance in the latest scenario).
And if apparently this interview didn’t mean that at all…why is it pointed out now after months of rant about it? Was it maybe because it was suddenly more convenient to start looking at the wording with more scrutiny?

It’s downright disgusting how this has all been muddied to this point.

Calling out on nitpicking bad writing when it’s convenient becomes secondary to a witch-hunt that dissects words and takes them out of context. Now, that’s toxic.
For someone that is currently dealing in a language that isn’t his native one, this is very offensive. It’s like judging people on their grammar.

Regardless of the semantics at hand Blizzard HAS gone with the bad writing route that scapegoated only Garrosh for Cataclysm, they HAVE broadly equated Teldrassil and Zuldazar as meaningful bad stuff that happened to the factions (to the point they also pointed at a halt of Tyrandes arch), and they probably WILL have again the same faults in their writing regarding this expansion.

There is something terribly wrong if the concept of “Don’t nitpick bad writing” flies over someone’s head, and instead the whole thing ends up being dumbed to “You aren’t literally saying what they said”.

Anyway, this was one final rant.
Needed to vent. Wasn’t directed at you specifically regardless if I quoted your post.

Surprisingly, I do agree with Araphant for once in quite a long time. This has exceeded it’s natural lifespan.