Dont think it would be possible to be more sexist to males even if someone tried. Ugly men are most often deemed unmanly, and then also dare say they are lazy to be like that.
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Yup, double standards at its finest. What a person.
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Four words for you guys:
Survival of the fittest.
Isn’t a sexist slogan but nature’s law for all living beings. And hadn’t civilisation made life way easier for man-kind, we’d still go by that law. Meaning you’d have to be fit and trained for survival. Having a fit body isn’t unnatural. It just became unneccessary to have for humans. That’s it.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
No they aren’t. I am not talking about the unrealistic beauty standards, I am talking about you know averages… like be real here how often do you see on the street what is considered the normal woman shape "small shoulders, wider hips, you know the triangle shape) than what is portrayed in the examples I gave. Most women do tend to look a particular way that is way different than man.
Ooook, idk why you are bringing this up, because I am talking about body shapes not personality quirks or fashion sense.
I never said they are sooo carrying on.
No she does not, the majority of big or strong builded women (those I said were not a minority) do still look like women. You mention Serena Williams, look at her again she has still has breasts, she still has feminine curves, Captain Carter is an upside down triangle, that is my issue. I will bring up He-man again, in the new series Teela is portrayed more masculine with arms similar to that of Serena’s, ok works for me Teela is a fighter makes sence she is bulky right, however Evil Lyn who is a sorceress and does no fighting has the exact same body type as Teela. Or how about Andra who before was a white red head but in the show was now black, because and I quote “the show already had a white red head so we changed her”. That’s what I call forced diversity and am against, idk why Cleopatra was cast as milky white, maybe it was a product of the times maybe there was no proper egyptian actress that would deliver the performance required. Sure, fine whatever, I will give you points for that, but what is the excuse for animations, comics and video games where there are no limitations and bariers to following the source material.
Also Valkyries and Amazons were veeeery feminine and what people might call “oversexualized” in their depictions in ye olden days, but also muscular, one does not exclude the other.
Yes, however a warrior build does not mean looks like a man, plenty of women athletes that have a “warrior” build however you can clearly recognize by the way their body is shaped that they are women and not man.
What? Why ? And also apples to oranges. In wow terms, it is safe to say that the female Blood elf looks like an average female Blood elf, however if a female dwarf looked like a female Blood elf that is not average or ordinary, because they are different races. A human female does tend to have physically alot in common with other human females, that is the average.
Well there is a difference between pretty and handsome.
Weeeelll lucky for you I’m here, you see my brother is very into body building so i picked up a few things around him, you would be surprised as how much your biology has a factor in how you pump up, and most of the hollywood standards cannot be achieved without using suplements and drastically changing your life (veeery anoying meal times and workout scedules) and in some cases not even that will be enough to reach that. For example even you may be of the biological type (idk what the correct terms is) no matter what you do you might just end up looking Fat Strong (is what my brother calls it), you where the guy just looks huge but the muscles are berelly refined visually. Biology does matter and its not just lazyness.
Oh also again depending on biology ofc, but if you are a beautiful woman, like most hollywood actresses are, looking fit is a lot easier than for a guy to look jacked. Its actually reversed if you think about it, the perfect man was considered to have an Adonis build, which would require alot of work, while the perfect woman just had to be born that way. Both are unrealistic standards for the average Jane and Joe.
EDIT To Azanteya, |I’m sorry but i had to heavily edit the post because its late and just straight up missed sentances that are crucial to my point, so if you are replying to this before the edit please re-read my reply.
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Can say same for women, the more attractive they are, the higher chance to continue their family and species. Thats how nature is. And its also shown in history for fertility goddess.
By the way, there are far more body types than fat or ripped. You dont have to have 6pack and massive chest to survive, yet thats all that is shown all the time about males. Your sexism is just showing a lot now.
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Hell, theres hope for me then - as a 50 year old with Ankylosing Spondilytis(look that one up, its interesting) and subjected to a life of painkillers and anti-inflammatories as a result. Also i make a gnoll look attractive and an undead is more ‘ripped’ than me - fortunately only one person on these forums hase seen an RL pic of me but i did get complimented on it
Not sure hypocrisy is the word you are looking for, in context.
The hilarious thing is that actual Vikings weren’t pumped as such. They were pretty much ‘weekend warriors’, being mostly farmers, their escapades, to go ‘A Viking’ as the term was, meant that they were pretty much fairly wiry little fella’s. Yeah, Little. Everyone was back then. What they -did- have, was an entrepreneurial spirit, violent at times (Pretty much like the British in the 16th-19th centuries) and a willingness to project that far overseas. Only when the countries they came from grew in prosperity and agricultural techniques did they become thought of as these big burly fella’s, before then it was sheer naked aggression that got them where they were.
Don’t get me wrong, ‘Vikings’ was a great TV series, but not really accurate (though at least there were no horned helmets!) A lot of drama shows make errors like that, take ‘300’, excellent film in so many regards, also utter rubbish. Why has Gerard Butler got a beard as King Leonidas? The Spartans regarded beards as effeminate, and scorned the Athenians as ‘boy lovers’ for having them (Ironic given that Spartan lads were encouraged to take an older man as a lover aged as young as 12) Where is his long hair? Spartans regarded a man with short hair as a weakling. Women had short hair. Why is he rippling with muscles? That’s not what Spartans looked like, they generally had what we shall charitably call ‘a bit of meat’ on them, undeniably fit in combat, but very much the ‘Dad Bod’ type. (We’ll leave aside that Leonidas and Gorgo, his wife were both in their sixties at the time of Thermopylae)
We build up weird ideas of what historically looked ‘manly’. It really ain’t like a body builder or men you see in women’s magazines. Even more hilariously I’d be regarded as far more macho by real life historical Vikings than Travis Fimmel as Ragnar Lothbrook, and I have the wiry but muscular build of a male Belf! I also have visible scars, including two parallel linear scars from my left hairline to my left eye socket (Long story, and not as dramatic as it sounds) but the point is, all my scars are to the front. Not the back. That was deemed far more ‘manly’ than being a weird 'roid beast.
History changes, and sometimes we get it wrong as to why it did, and what the definition of the sexes were, Know why Monks had tonsures with the centre of their head shaved? Why Celtic Christianity monks had different tonsures shaved at the front of their head? Why ‘Gentlemen’ used to, and to this day, Barristers when practicing Law in the UK wear those wigs, male and female?
All History being weird, weird and usually wrong.
‘Pretty’ men used to be deemed the absolute peak, not pumped fella’s. Then it went weird, then it flipped back, and now back again. Aza is however right, the image of women has remained fairly static. I say fairly static, some painters enjoyed painting more ‘statuesque’ women, and in some cultures, largely eastern european and slavic, concepts of what was ‘desirable’ varied from western european ones, and fair play, all good.
There was even a period where for both men and women to be a bit of a ‘chonky unit’ was a desirable trait (Round about the time of Henry VIII unsurprisingly 
) Because it was a sign that you lived well and ate well, and therefore were rich, and of high status.
Most of the historical beauties (When talking about females) weren’t actually physically attractive to our modern perception. Cleopatra certainly wasn’t, physically, however she had charisma out of the wazoo, and could charm men like a chainsaw through butter, being probably one of the most intelligent people on the planet. And that -is- it’s own kind of attractive. I certainly find it sexy. (I won’t start on Cleopatra, I did a fascinating module on the changing depiction of Cleopatra in 20th century film, as the role of women in society changed)
What I’m getting at, is that societal views are changeable constantly, by location and time. A Spartan would look at a modern day ‘Viking’ as if such exist, (They don’t) and think of them as effeminate, They’d both think of Romans as a bit weird (Though at least they didn’t have beards, but no long hair, weirdo’s) I’d look like a pauper at King Henry VIII’s court, he’d look like a lardy fat lad I could pub kick to death to me.
What is ‘Manly’ is very, very, very flexible…
She was actually Greek. or a couple of generations removed, all the Ptolemey’s were, and they only bred with each other (Yes, that kind of icky)
And also not real. Either of them.
Also Valkyries were actually supposedly big unit’s, who could literally sweep a man off his feet with one hand, Amazon’s were most definitely not real. No, they never did the thing with lopping off a bewb to better fire an arrow. That has no impact on loosing a bow, I know a twice Gold Medal winning archer, she never cut anything off…
So much -should- be subjective, but sometimes isn’t. Some men think the Kardashian women are attractive, I find them repellent. I am sure it is the same for both sexes.
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Removing womens what?
Blizz cant handle strong women 
Ok I stand corrected there was no half greek half… persian was it(???sorry I’m not big on cleopatra, dig the hair dress tough wish we had more pharaoh mogs in WoW) actress that was fit for the role or a product of the times, idk.
Not relevant to the point, also that offends me because I am a devote follower of Odin.
Size does not matter to the conversation we were having, they were big yes but had the stereotypical or average female body, meaning they did not look like men.
Again not relevant, attractions like you said are subjective, we are discussing objectively what the average women looks like.
Wow, that’s a big post. I like a man with a big post. Check my profile big boy.
I’d only be a disappointment
Well they were not pumped per say, buuut they were build bigger genetically than the saxons, thats were the myth and overfetishizm (no idea if that was a word but it is now) of them being muscular comes from. They were more or less dad bods.
It was not accurate at all. For example Bjorn was the one that raided France and a viking called Hastein was the one that faked his death to enter the city of Luna. Rollo was not related to Ragnar and was active during the age of his sons (for context when Rollo was teenager, Ragnar’s oldest son Halfdan was considered an old man by olden standards and was crown king of Northumbria) not before them. Ubbe was ambushed at his camp by King Alfred’s men and died there, he was certainly not the first viking to sail to Vinland.
TLDR I am big on Vikings, come at me.
You’re right, double standard was.
Either way, I applaud you and Amonet for taking her seriously.
So then, most women in movies (not comics) are still looking like that? Just because one or two comics feature something different, it isn’t all of a sudden the most displayed average. It’s just adding variety. A variety you dislike, okay. But if you’re talking about unrealistic animation, fake balloon boobs aren’t a realistic representation of women either and I’d argue that going by your complaint it is at least equally problematic to overly promote that look on animated female characters.
I’m bringing this up because it influences the public perception of what is average or should be average. As much as your examples. Have you viewed every single female body around the world to define an average? No, you go by your local surrounding and what is delivered to you visually by the media. I for example haven’t even watched the comic you’re talking about, so I don’t see how it would be threatening my perception of what is an average female body.
Didn’t say that. But many men would argue muscles with women aren’t female, so you see how the perception of what is female can vary again. To the other comments, I really don’t seek for gathering points. Is not my intention. Otherwise I’d stick to lip service for all those attacking and labelling me for having my own opinion. You have a problem with female characters not looking like real females due to overmasculinity according to your definition or don’t match the skin colour their original had. I have a problem with with characters not looking like real females due to oversexualisation according to my definition. Common ground: overly portraying women in a way that doesn’t match reality is an issue.
I could show you a bunch of amateur drawings by men, who have difficulties getting the right balance between muscular and feminine or drawing female bodies in general. A lot of old comics struggle there. So do very old historical art depictions of women. There is a specific drawing I stumbled upon while researching medieval medical sources…
https: //web. stanford.edu/class/history13/womandiseases.gif
I urge you to take a look. Sometimes it really is just an unlucky drawing style. Should probably get more women on board of their design teams, aye…
And that’s where I’d disagree. I claim most female body shapes in WoW, leaving furries and certain features like fangs or feet out, are derived from actual female human body shapes.
Handsome means beautiful as far as I know.
Not just, and I didn’t specifically refer to the Hollywood extreme of “trained”. But achieving a muscular body in general isn’t unrealistic. Nor does muscular mean pumped necessarily. Skinny men can have muscles and be fit too while staying skinny and still look handsome as in beautiful.
Listen up at this specific point because I’ve mentioned it twice in this thread by now. You thinking I’d talk in extremes only when using the term “fit” is your problem, not mine. Fit means healthy. Very sexist, I know.
Is fine, I don’t want to nail you down on expressions like some other people in here sport to do. ^^
Good Sir, I’ve written an article on Spondilytis once and I am sorry you suffer from it. I am not intending to discriminate people with health conditions. But if claims arise that a trained or muscular body would be unnatural or unrealistic to achieve and I’d be a sixist to disagree when many indigenous tribes still have a body shaped by natures roughness and this was common standard before humans enjoyed the comforts of civilisation, then I will state so. Has nothing to do with devaluing people not fulfilling the criteria of said body shape. But between unable and unwilling to achieve there are miles and a lot of men actually could achieve it but blame it on being impossible. That is a wrong portrayal that needed to be corrected. No offense to you personally intended.
Yeah, I know. The whole training for Ragnarök dudes within the scene can get a bit annoying at one point. So do the Vikings series fans. Never completely watched it tbh since I was into Norse mythology and history way before that and it just made me facepalm in too many situations.
Hey the visualisation of Greek battle shipp formations was absolutely SMASHING! Ò_Ó Especially with the music theme. I was hearing my old history teacher’s voice ringing through my mind again admiring those manoeuvres back then.
She had Persian ancestry on mother’s side.
With the difference that a boob surgery was never part of natural female looks.
They do that so their shirts will fit better. Look up Daniel Tosh, he has a great joke about it in one of his shows. “I did it because my shirt would fit better, nope: you did it because you’re a …ore.”
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Why shouldn’t I?
I mean I genuinely believe that those are her believes, I disagree with them hence I am questioning and debating them. The way to a better understanding is by conversation not bad mouthing or ignoring people who disagree with you. And who knows by the end of this conversation I could have open up her mind or she mine, who knows.
Anyway back to said conversation…
In movies, those that are played by real life people, women look like women, because women generally do not look like men. The one recent life action movie example of the Captain Carter body type was when the literally CGI-ed the head of Olga Kurylenko ontop of her MALE stunt doubles body, because ofc we had to sex swap Taskmaster. In comics and animation, its not just a few, its becoming the norm for women to look like men. If it was the one or two off fine but its almost everything now. The comic book industry is now a mouth piece for identity politics and ,I do hate to use the phrase, the leftist agenda. From race to sex to sexuality swapping established characters, Iron man and Thor got replaced by women (context yes, both women kept the names Iron man and Thor, whats worse in Thors case was he was not allowed to use his actual name and was called Odynson), Iceman was turned gay after what 60-70 years ( I know i will lose comic book cred for this) of being straight, Tim Drake( Robin) received a similar treatment were “the writhers” decided to end his relationship with a girl he dated for the past 20 years (there goes that comic book cred again) just to be revealed as Bi. Now if you are not a comic book reader you might not know this but, we actually know what these characters think all the time because of thought bubbles and boxes. Not once did those 2 ever think “You know what’s hot ? Guys”.
I’m not against variety, nor am I against urealistic, I brought up that was equally unrealistic for a women be build as a man as is for her to look like a perfect goddess because that was your argument, I am also not against the female head on male body archetype, but variety is not what we are getting. We are not getting “fake balloon boobs” anymore we are just getting women who look like men. And ok sure fine if over compensation is the way to “repent for your past sins”, k create new characters don’t change the old ones, She-Hulk was a tall beautiful and intelligent women now she is male Hulk but with a wig, also for some reason she is no longer smart and speaks in half sentences like her male counterpart.
Point is in order to have diversity, like actual diversity you do not go from all white to all black, you mix it and not replace it. Right now we are not getting “overly sexualized” women or “toxically masculine” men, we are only getting stunning and brave women and lets say woke men to avoid the other derogative term.
Oh ffs, the public perception of what biologically and physically a women looks like will never change unless our species biologically changes and even then it is questionable. Women all around the world have very defining very visible features that differentiate them from men, now one women may not have all of said features, like maybe she was born with an adams aplle or she does not have breasts etc, however she will still have the majority of features that are common for women, if there is a women that has none of the features of other women and only has those of man, then sorry to whomever you if this offends you you are not an average women.
Again you completely missed the point, its not me having a problem with them being masculine, its me having a problem that everything is like this now, because sexy women=bad, masculine men=bad and/or evil.
Are you seeing you double standard here ? Women like those in comics and anime, you know the “overly sexualized” ones do exist the same way overly masculine women exist, however they are a minority (and no not an oppressed minority). Also if you are having a problem with “overlysexualized” women because in your words those are unachievable, unrealistic or don’t exist, why do you not have a problem with the “undersexualized” women who are equally unachievable, unrealistic or don’t exist. This is why people are calling you out for having double standards, and no offence but you should really start opening your mind and seeing thinks from the other perspective, you do not have to agree but just consider and think about it.
Amateur being the key word here.
And I can show you examples of men understanding the women anatomy better than me. Sex, race and sexuality have nothing to do with competence or the lack there of.
Yes you are correct, they are derived from human bodies, however if you were a male dwarf you are most likely to be attracted to a female dwarf and not a female elf because you are the same species. This is a hypothetical ofc, we as humans do not have the priviledge of sharing our planed with mythical races like warcraft does, we have no idea if dwarf-draenei relationships on earth would be normal or considered as something like bestiality.
While both mean beautiful, handsome will refer to having beautiful male characteristics like a strong jaw line while pretty would refer to the more female stuff that are considered beautiful like a softer face etc. And please do not spin this into another “strong jaw line is only considered masculine due to social perception yada yada” I am giving an example. Look at it like this James Charles is pretty, Brat Pit is handsome.
And I say again, depends on biology, while it might be achievable the dedication, work and time depend on your biology. Even if your goal is to just have some abs, a berally visible 6 pack from the right angle, you might be looking at months of hard work (even if you are skinny) and diets, now these are very rare cases but it happens.
But enough with this fitness talk. The problem I have with left leaning people (and trust me you are not special I have more than enough problems with right wing ideologies). Is that more often than not you people argue in bad faith, and if you re-read your posts you can see how you are doing it as well. You believe I have a problem with masculine women, because this or that reason, no I do not, my problem is that there is no longer feminine women. Sure have your Jane Cenas and your Silvie Stalones, but let us have our Lara Crofts and Bayonettas aswell. Sidenote, we have only spoken of how they look, how female, LGBT, and PoC characters are writhen nowadays is a whole other can of worms.
Some other person will probably say that I am homophobic because I do not agree with the Mathias Shaw/Flynn whatever his name was relationship, as I see it as a retcon, regardless of me actually liking the little deer/horse gay couple (sry don’t remember their names, generally i hate night fae) in Ardenwield, yeah I said it I liked their little story of sacrifice and love for each other, it was simple yet it was entertaining.
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This is funny… The problem was the Blizzard employees acting like total perverts, not the players. Blizzard response is to fix everything that had nothing to do with the actual problem. Shifting blame.
You know what? It’s hopeless. It’s clear to me that mother nature is reverting evolution, some people are slowly turning back to primates and don’t even know what they are doing anymore. Stop caring about everything is the best solution. I don’t even want to see or hear the next “solution” anymore.
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Well they already did play the “you players are part of the problem” card so are you really surprised ?
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