At least 5. AT LEAST.
I hate how complicated the game has become. Not only rogues, most other classes too.
I loved my rogue back in vanilla. Backstab, backstab, evis. The end. And backstab had a nice sound effect like I could feel a knife sticking in my kidney. And it would crit for over 2k and you could really see a mobâs health go down a lot.
Now Iâm playing finger gymnastics and always looking at my bars/WAs
I mean you can go play that right now if thats your jam.
Personally I think thats extremely boring, a bit of depth in the gameplay is a good thing.
if you want simple gameplay go make a character on classic simple as that.
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Yea seriously, button bloat has essentially become a meaningless word.
Like toxic, or maintenance buff, everyone has a different definition of it, and many of them are objectively wrong.
The only button bloat that should be removed, or radically changed is the one that doesnât improve gameplay, like slice and dice.
Just having a lot of abilities is not a negative in itself. And if you think it is, you donât know wtf you are talking about.
Frankly speaking, rogue is great gameplay at the moment.
Could be a bit better, they screwed up a little here and there, but itâs mostly great.
Why should the game be always balanced around the lowest common denominator? Thatâs bound to make the game boring as hell. Just because there are a lot of people who are frankly trash at the game doesnât mean the gameplay should be reduced to a level where they can understand it.
These people likely donât even do the type of content where getting your rotation perfect matters, so why do you even care?
Thatâs right brother! The game should be balanced around completely average and unremarkable people like you and me! Weâre cool (around 15 degrees Celsius).
Except thatâs not how things work in reality, like ever.
And if they do, things always go to crap.
Also, donât compare me to you.
Aw, donât be so hard on yourself!
And for the record, you canât be hard on me too! For that youâd have to take me to dinner first.
Thatâs pretty funny actually.
Respect for that.
Ye its way to much! This could have been done way better.
Its of putting.
Assassination really need to get some button removed. There is so much setup just go get the damage rolling that if you have 2 burst classes with you, its all dead!
I know that higher keys will be better for dot builds, but its not like the burst classes get worse with better gear.
Taking away abilities is not a solution, because then eventually we will end up with all specs/classes having such simple and straightforward rotations that it will no longer be interesting for players who enjoy something with more depth and complexity.
I will say, I truly believe that if you just take some time and practice on a Training Dummy, that you will eventually grasp the rotation of the class and (with proper keybind setup) be able to perform it purely out of muscle memory without thinking about it. It is not as hard as it seems, just takes a little bit of practice, which in my opinion, is a positive (and fun!)
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Good players also donât like the current bloat, hence itâs being tweaked.
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Most people are very positive about the rogue changes.
The problem of âability bloatâ Is frankly 100% subjective, and mostly undefined, or badly defined.
As i said before, everyone has a different definition of what it is, and some of them are objectively incorrect.
But the rogue changes themselves have been very well received, and they didnât even reduce ability count much, if anything.
Itâs pretty well defined. Outlaw Rogue has 3 movement buttons, 3 self-defense buttons, SnD which is basically a âkeep this up 100% of the timeâ button, and RtB which is also aimed at 100% uptime, AND Blade Flurry, which you ideally have up 100% of the time as well with UHUH in 10.2, or most of the time in 10.1 with Grand Melee. 1 extra button for audacity procs (fixed in 10.2), 2 ST stun buttons, 2 stops (blind/gauge), 3 stealth related buttons, 2 poisons of which you also need to keep track. Then thereâs a bunch of extra âoptionalâ buttons like Thistle Tea and Shiv. Then ideally you also have Distract and your potion bound etc.
Rogue has a lot of different buttons that are used for similar purposes, where other classes have 1, maybe 2 variants of. All these buttons translate into extra utility, but it also means you easily have a ton of extra buttons. Lots of those can be integrated into a single button and make it much more bearable.
Audacity no longer requiring a dedicated keybind is already a big win. Dreadblades⌠not sure, but it saves a keybind. Now give us choice node talents to merge evasion and cloak m, integrate gauge into shiv, make SnD passive, remove shadowstep from the class tree or make it buff grappling hook instead on outlaw instead of having the talent in the spec tree.
There are still a ton of issues that arenât being addressed, just check the US forums where there are at least 54x as many posts as here.
The only problem i see is slice and dice in all that you mentioned.
Various abilities doing similar things but to different degrees? Like ambush and sinister strike? Not a problem.
As i said, button bloat is an overused word that lost itâs meaning, and is mostly subjective. Just like toxic, or elitist or other bs like that.
In the end all that matters is whether or not the spec is fun to play, and outlaw on the ptr is the best iteration of outlaw they ever made, and it still has a lot of buttons.
I disagree. The version without Slice and Dice, and without Shadow Dance, was infinitely better in BfA.
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It wasnât.
Just slice and dice doesnât make rogue worse than it was.
Itâs not even close in fact, current outlaw on the pts is far better. Sub too. Assassination too.
In BfA everything was designed around Roll the Bones. Not going to say that this design was good or bad, it had its issues. However you were playing Outlaw, not sub with a gun. We have so many more talents that we pick now, the amount of buttons has nearly been doubled. It just shows that with less buttons it can still be a good spec. We donât need 3 buttons for movement, make the existing 2 better with passives. Donât need 3+ defensives etc.
I get that more options is fun, but the problem is that everything can be added. Thereâs no real choice. You donât have to pick between spells, you can just keep adding active spells and this is adding to the bloat. Itâs not a meaningful choice if the only option is to pick all the active spells just to compete with other specs who can do the same with half the amount.