Why the fel would anyone vote for the season two tier?

Classes Warrior
1

to avoid going on to a rant that will involve lots of unfancy words.

you just made sure we recived a tier set thats worse then the one we had, it preforms worse in every aspect even with the right stat weights.

Just spent the entier morning on Lfr and dummys comparing the logs between the old tier set and new one back to back, it’s so much worse :smiley: congratulations you ruined this season for me and every other warrior our there.

even with tier pieces that is 20 item lvls lower it dose not make up for the odyns fury bonus.

1 Like
2

That’s the general opinion on the US forums too, that the S2 bonus is so spectacularly bad that it takes quite some gearing up in S4 to break even with damage we did in full S3 gear. (Only replacing the tier pieces is a DPS loss, even with the higher itemlevel)

Thanks a lot to all the people voting for S2 on alts because a “boring” playstyle (As if spamming raging blow like a toddler with a drum kit is so damn interesting) was apparently so much worse than doing horribly low damage…

2 Likes
3

Hi and indeed,

You are correct about this in part. Now, first things first. Old (4) vs New (4), or S3 vs S4.

S4 does fall behind on S3 in general, if you got HC S4 pieces, you barely break even on ST. Still, you will not lose DPS using S4 over S3 in the long run, once your tier pieces ilvl are higher to make up for the difference. Once you reach Mythic Tier, it is an upgrade.
(yes this is bottomline kinda dumb, but it also isnt tier-breaking)

It is safe to presume Fury will see a ST buff this patch on the tierside, though it is also a low chance that the devs wont see this as an actual problem - as ilvl sorts it out. We are not boomie levels of bad.

We knew going in to the season that going from S3 to effectively S2 would be a ST and prio damage loss. I don’t believe anyone actually trusted the devs to be true to the word of making sure that wasnt the case :dracthyr_hehe_animated:

Now to the correction:

S4 is not weaker on AoE and in m+ overall it will be a net positive for your output. We can discuss if prio damage is more important than flat damage, but that is another can of worms all together (I am on side pro priodam).

Most sims will show something like this early on:

  • ST damage takes a hit, 1-5k less, or equal. As ilvl goes up, this evens out till S4 overtakes S3.
    (yes, 489 pieces fighting with 509s is silly, it is adressed above)
  • AoE damage will increase; by 3-10%%.

In the end it is all just scuffed numbertuning from the dev-side of things. I truly hope and believe they are going to fix this. Though, in the back of my mind I fear they will just round their shoulders and go “Who cares, ilvl enforces a DPS increase. We tried to tune it once already.”

Let us all hold hand and pray that there is a dev that plays Fury warrior, let us pray that individual is in a position to create change, let us pray to see this problem sorted.

:dracthyr_cry_animated::pray:
Pray with me!

4

I doubt Blizz will do anything, S4 is basically a filler-tier anyway, they’ll do their best to ignore us and hope the Pandaria redux distracts us enough.

I just went Arms-spec for now, i don’t mind being a bit sub-optimal (I usually play SMF), but once the difference between Arms and Fury becomes too noticeable, well, there are limits.

5

ya better pray and hard because:

Fury S3 vs S4:

A casual 18k ST damage loss going from S3 to S4, neat.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/814587805438967869/1235364362420748410/image.png?ex=66341a37&is=6632c8b7&hm=c6284d860f6c39cb518c7693e17ccc2d9455456a0aa4db38de232a75ecfa2dbd&

A casual 18k ST damage loss going from S3 to S4, neat. Very very neat.

Here we got Arms:

Just having a chill 60k DPS lead on ST. A casual 25% lead - in Fury optimised gear…

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/814587805438967869/1235364566507192410/image.png?ex=66341a68&is=6632c8e8&hm=82606997f6e520cfeb31e93654dc65cf8c236602d163d6d020cefb9a47a6e7ea&

Pray hard and pray often! :dracthyr_cry_animated: :pray:

6

I’m just about to start S4 tonight, having given Retail a rest for a few weeks- and it shows with my lowly 468 gear. Basically, you’re saying play Arms with Fury optimised gear (regarding stat prio)? If so, i might give it a go, not played Arms since Legion so a whole new bunch of talents and rotation to learn…

8

could go over a list of things i hate about this talent build and tier set… but if i can try to be constructive only way i can see them even remotly try to fix it.

Increase the bonus per stack and reduce the max from 10 to 5, this would give us a higher upptime on the bleed, and damage boost from a weaker bloodthirst crit then the odyns fury but far more of them.

9

Sorry to say this but i rather not play at all then play s3 talents again.
Season 3 you underperform as budget arms warrior as fury. Low apm , extremely cd reliant gameplay. 0 output for m+ and only legendary does the band aid fix which isnt even enough.
Season 2 ( or season 4) anger management double cd window every pack , you have something to press always . High apm spammy playstyle which is the only reason i like fury in the first place.
Both tiers underperforms a lot compared to others. One is good at single target other is good at sustain damage and aoe. Also we get a promise before the season starts about tuning ( which clearly they didnt do it properly again ).

Blame blizzard for not tuning properly not the people who doesnt wanna play budget arms warrior.

Edit : Also problem isnt even tier set issue to begin with . No matter which set you took , your baseline abilities are underperforming a lot. Execute hits like a wet noodle and i start to believe it heals the boss thats how bad it is , bloodthirst hits like a wet noodle without any buffs , rampage without raging buffs deals like negative damage. Any talents you take to empower them arent really doing anything either.

10

Let us pray they can work in parallel between pandaria remix and s4. Oh wait, they showed during S3 they can’t do this.

Let us pray to have more copium!

On the other hand, Arms spec has also high apm and does the work (just saying) :smiley:

11

Why ? because it is way better mechanicaly than S3 which is very stupid… for second its second week of s4 they just said that they gonna balanc and there is pretty sure evidence that now fury is pretty low dps … but TBH its not about tier set its about spec itself they just have to buff spec not tier set… they have to buff rampage and flat dmg

12

Besides “It’s very stupid” being a rather shallow argument, do you really think spamming raging blow is somehow… more intelligent?

As for balancing (Let alone to a sufficient degree to lift Fury out of dumpster-tier): I’ll believe it when i see it.

13

ofc cause its way more logic due to builder spender where spender is bigger dmg than build s3 was otherway… also u got for like two button less and also there wasnt any kind of complexity like where and when send buffed thirst… but ofc all ppl cry fury have no numbers now ppl think just this way… s3 was biggest braindead tier i have ever seen :smiley: for very long time and i m just glad that we dont have it anymore and rest is matter of balancing numbers

1 Like
14

Sure, it’s weird that the builder was the damaging attack (I’d rather have it put into Rampage), but at least something we did dealt decent damage with that tier set, and as bonus, i didn’t have to track stacks of a buff with that set, i hate having to set up an add-on to use an item/set properly.

15

Wensday, pray for buffs wensday

:dracthyr_cry::pray:

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16

Avatar timer tracking with optimal bb charges and fitting as much bloodbath as you can into tiny spear window then afk 1.5 minutes . I still have no clue what part of that you guys liking. I rather do 40% less damage compared to top dps then play s3 fury again.

17

I do not understand why people keep saying you AFK’d with S3.

Anger Management and S3 (4) OF CDR is the same function, you are actively trying to reduce the CD of your your main ability. APM is the same, both are about the same gameplay loop - to reset CDs asap. CDs that basically shared the same CD loop as well.

If you had dead GCDs in S3, it is because you played badly and didn’t understand how GCD economy works. That is fine. For quite a while, thanks to all the RB resets, that has not been something many have worried about. So it makes sense this feels problematic and janky for inexperienced S3 players.

Still, it is dishonest to claim you were AFK for 1.5min, when you had to push out GCDs just as fast to reduce CD (same game loop as S1 to S4), as with AM/Reck/Rav. Only difference being that AM/reck/rav had a different prio system. You still pressed buttons on every GCD. Both had DPS profiles that was based around those reduced CDS by pressing your GCDs. You did not AFK in S1 or S2 after you pressed avatar, even when you used spear. Nor did you do so in S3.

It is fine if you dislike the priority list of abilities, that you prefer one where you put in less thought and are less likely to be punished for a mistake. Just don’t come out with blatent untruths about how the playstyle worked.

Effectively they were about equal in gameplay goals - to get GCDs out to reset your CD. Only difference was really a more static prio list vs a more fluid one.
Aka: (s3): Ramp, BB, x, BT vs (s2) Ramp, RB, RB, x

1 Like
18

That’s the bit that gets me, people are nattering on about how the S3 rotation was so boring, but what we’re getting is just spamming raging blow, which is just as boring.

Now i might be biased, i played Annihilator (before it was cool :stuck_out_tongue: ), so i used Slam as occasional filler (Buffed by Storm of Swords, which added both damage and a CD to it), or BT, or when everything was on CD, WW, and that seems more interesting to me than “When in doubt, spam Raging blow!”, because of that i’m pretty annoyed that TWW is removing Annihilator, so we’re forced to use Blizzard’s pet skill, but i digress…

19

Apm isnt the same at all what are you talking about ? You drop from 180-200 to 100-120. It plays and feels ultra slow also doing literally nothing outside of cds made me literally useless on dungeon content. Not having reck uptime makes you have lots of dead gcd windows because you cant generate enough rage to spend. Yes gcd wise its the same but problem is you are not generating enough rage outside of reck to make it fluid. AM builds have double charge of raging blow which fills it up and without cd whirlwind.
Also one pack you pumping with your stuff then you are relying on an undertuned odyns fury. Also for some reason your tier set bonus doesn’t even work outside of primary target too.

20

You are not doing 180 APM as Fury Warrior. We got something called a Global Cool Down (GCD), it can not be reduced under 0.75 sec, that is with 100% haste. Lets be nice and say you got 50% haste, that would be 1sec GCD. Or 60 APM from filling GCD. Reck/Ava is not on GCD, nor charge/leap, and during heroism you should be able to reach closer to 70-80 APM during the duration of close to 100% haste. On avg we would see around 65-70 apm.

Now it could be that we are using the term APM as not the same unit, so I will clarify, I refer to APM to not what is often called CPM. Actual button presses that do something, or actions taken by the player in intput units is what I care about. CPM (often refered to as APM) in WoW terms can often be connected to procs, or events. Like Hack’n’Slash when you rampage, creating events per proc. Bloating CPM listings. Giving the false impression APM is a lot higher than what it is.

Exceptions to this, are prot warrior and bear, that spam ironfur and ignore pain (both not on GCD), skyrocketing their actual APM close to 100-120. Insane levels for World of Warcraft.

Beware, if you go to warcraft logs and check CPM, you will see how flawed it counts things. Rampage as one, counts as 3 CPM in their system, even if is one button press. So you will see numbers like 70 CPM (casts per minute) for Rampage. WE DO NOT CAST RAMAPGE 70 TIMES IN 60 SECONDS.

*https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CpLRVTcJW7bxam8h#fight=53&type=casts&source=127*
This is a perfect example of bloated CPM show by logs. As Rampage show 90 CPM, and Hack’n’Slash 35 CPM. That is 125 CPM from the same ability. Rampage. That we cast at most 30 times per minute (every other GCD) and that is under very good conditions. So, in this example, it is fair to presume actual APM is ~30 ish, not 125.

The playstyle, of what is discussed, both fill their GCD spots. APM is directly locked to that. Doesn’t matter if you run AM or RA, what affects GCD is haste values and off-GCD casts. Reck/Rav/AM do create one more cast of reck, than what OF did (as Reck/Rav was cast as one, being 2 casts - and OF being alone 1 cast). That is basically the only factor, with a minor lowering of haste (5%) prefered going to versa for S3 vs S4 (so a marginal GCD difference).

Hope this explains what there seems to be confusion on your part on what I was referring to and talking about.

21

Can you explain me why am i having dead gcds with annihilator non am build then outside of reck and how its not effecting my apm ? outside of of and reck windows s3 set has no button press windows with or without slam waiting for fury recharge to press reck too often.
You all coping about the single target damage cuz last time we had proper damage was i think either legion or late bfa but doesnt change the fact that talent set is dysfunctional and core problem isnt even tier to begin with.
Fury abilities are undertuned a lot. Without any buffs every ability hits like a wet noodle