WM for horde is broken


(Vaëyn) #41

Yup. But that’s deliberate design. WoW is a multiplayer game, you can try to solo WM, but sometimes a group is needed. Or, a choice is made. For example, do I go solo into this wq infested with enemas, or do I do a different wq. That’s one of the awesome things about WM. It’s unscripted. You make choices, and those choices affect the outcome.


#42

It may be unscripted but LFG makes it a bit more artificial where as not using LFG (and the stars happen to align and you’re fortunate enough to be on a balanced shard) it can feel very organic how a kill slowly escalates into a full blown war. Where as LFG can just feel like you hopped into a quick queue random BG with worse objectives than the real ones.


(Vaëyn) #43

I get you. But there’s players that want to be able to dive right into some WPvP. Without LFG that’s not so easy. It’s just a short term recruitment tool, does the job. A guild or community can be used for this purpose too, also artificial.

For sure it’s fun when stuff just happens though. Randomness is my fav! But ye, if outnumbered, I am highly motivated to recruit more and fast; LFG, communities, and Local Defence :slight_smile:


#44

Well, no system is ever perfect and for every system there will be people to whom the good outweighs the bad or vice versa. This was a good conversation, though.


(Vaëyn) #45

Yup, that’s exactly right, can’t please everyone, don’t ever try. I and others here have floated ideas that might help one section of players, but always pros and cons.

I trust Blizz to do what works for WPvP. For example, the 25 kill raid quest was swiftly changed to non raid quest. That disappointed me briefly, because with the raid q, suddenly large raids were easy to make. But, it was the right thing to remove that q from raids.

For me, last patch has improved WPvP, when I was already happy with it. From a mainly WPvPer’s perspective, to me it’s all working well in WM. Looking forward to 8.2 PvP objectives.

Ye, good convo!


(Jaremiel) #46

And there I was thinking World PvP was such an important and great feature that it would motivate players to be played by itself, instead of needing bonusses as motivation.

For the love of god remove the bonus all together, I would be greatful if Warmode felt optional again, instead of forced…

Also “alliance players only zerg”, same feeling about horde here. So probably both sides do the very same. World PvP is about who has the bigger raid, there is nothing else involved with this entire feature atm. The sharding making it only worse, since either you are stuck with a shard your side dominates or your side gets farmed…

Suggestion to fix it: make warmode give pvp related rewards, conquest points, marks etc. instead of Exp, Azerite and Gold… kkthxbye


(Sindrí) #47

in the meantime, i’m just using blizzard’s 0 IQ approach to get some alliance alts to max level.


#48

8.0
Alliance: please give us a fix! We’re getting ganked… lets hope crying in the forums will make blizzard hear us…
Horde: trollol noobs, don’t like it go turn off WM.

8.1
Horde: please give us a fix! We’re getting ganked… lets hope crying in the forums will make blizzard hear us…
Alliance: trollol noobs, don’t like it go turn off WM.


#49

Yea. They are so happy they gank flightpoints to celebrate. O the fun…but still, i would rather get swarmed day and night than belong to a faction that needed to be bribed to turn on wm.


(Shalim) #50

We wouldn´t have to be bribed, if people from your faction hadn´t swapped to mainstream horde because of better racials, guilds and streamers and thus caused the imbalance.

PS. : Without belfs, you would be the faction getting bribes.


(Vaëyn) #51

That’s wpvp, players will go where the enemy is. FPs, wqs, assault, city. Both sides can form groups, I’m sure it’s fun to destroy a bunch of FP gankers :slight_smile:

But, Horde have larger WM player base to form LFG groups. An advantage, need more Alliance. Sure, it would be awesome if more wpvpers rather than pvp questers.


(Khyrneken) #52

Alliance cried for War Mode “balance” because their crying over War Mode imbalance actually caused people to leave War Mode, believing that their was a problem. There was no population gap, it was literally the Alliance scaring themselves away.

This is evident with the now tidal wave of Alliance in War Mode sucking up that sweet 30% bonus for being, er… outnumbered? By region maybe, but not in most Assault shards I have been in!

The Horde now have a genuine complaint for War Mode balance. There is a clear reason for a War Mode population gap, and its not a lack of Horde players, its the fact that Alliance now have a 30% bonus against the Horde’s 10%, and keeping it despite being far from outnumbered in the zone/area/shard.

We’ve clearly established that the population gap means bugger all per shard and that Alliance can fill an Assault gank-group multiple times in one phase, so why do we need the 30% now? Why is it region based and not zone/area/shard based?


(Vaëyn) #53

It’s region based because of lfg. And it’s lfg that unbalances shards. Horde have a larger pool of WMers to form larger groups faster. An advantage. The 30% and 25 kill quest have helped, but Alli are still disadvantaged with lfg.

In reality, it’s luck of the draw being outnumberd. Some shards I’ve seen Horde dominate, some Alliance. I remember older forum post where Horde complained no Alli on their overflow wm shard. To me, that is the worst thing in wpvp. I’m guessing that the changes blizz made were mostly to try and reduce need for overflow shards. Because as alli I didn’t feel bad when outnumbered, just used lfg to deal with it. But, for Horde, no Alli at all on a shard = no point to wm and free 10%. Judging by forum posts, looks fixed.

WM is survival of the fittest pvp. And that includes ability to form alliances when needed. Cross realm LFG and communities are a great tool for that. Alli are outnumbered cross realm. Harder to organize perhaps. But, the 25 kill quest encourages more Alli WMers to leave Boralus. So, being outnumbered in region, but having that quest, maybe helps provide a better balance in lfg.

Those doing wm for the 30% are not there to pvp. Those players don’t count for being outnumbered. When there’s a fight they just walk on by lol. But, that’s fine. WM is anything goes, and they are part of that. And they make good raid fodder.


(Khyrneken) #54

Ah, that’s wrong. Even with LFG, the shard will not fit the entirety of the Horde Regional Population. Shards would fill up equally with one being Horde Advantage, then the remainder would be Horde just menacing the wildlife alone.

Worse still, now with the actual 30% for Alliance coming into effect, there is a disadvantage that is making a lot of Horde think twice about Warmode since they are just getting a really crappy bonus compared to what is available to others. It’s like the original Alliance problem but there actually is a problem this time.

The Alliance are outnumbered regionally but will never be outnumbered in-shard because the Horde are now facing major “anti-incentive”. Blizzard needs to fix this without just throwing numbers at this. WPvP/War Mode is totally survival of the fittest and groups are so fine, but flip-flopping between one side getting more benefit and then the other is just lame.

See, War Mode should be more for the WPvPers. More incentive to actually fight the war. I keep going on and on about Capture Points around Azeroth. We need those. At least those would be an actual on-going fight! Could lead to player-made Warfronts.

That plus actually rewards for engaging the enemy in the open world, and disadvantages for shirking fights in a similar situation.

That is what we need. Not this PvE bonus!


(Vaëyn) #55

Yep, I agree on incentivising pvp in WM. Capture points are coming, looking forward! Ya know, I don’t really totally disagree with you, I get you on a bunch of what you said. But maybe some aspects of wm like bonus, seem an issue, but actually are part of what helps make wm a conflict, rather than a skirmish. That’s how I see it.

Can’t say I know the tech behind wm shards. But, going by what ion says, each wm shard tries to be balanced. The lfg and boss groups create temporary imbalance, for either faction. That’s my understanding, and what I observe. I have seen plenty of both sides being outnumbered in wm. Lfg is the solution to lfg imbalance.

New quests create increased conflict, that’s really good for wm, there must be conflict or you get stagnation like on old pvp servers. WM is chaos, war. PvP servers were skirmishes. So much better now, it’s war. Fun!

To pvpers, bonus is irrelevant, or should be. If some Horde turn off WM, this will help balance. If more Alli turn on at same time, even better. Losing Horde pveers will not harm wm. Alliance gaining pveer doesn’t really help Alli much. Pvers don’t really count in wm, though they might pvp sometimes. We’ll see. Even with perfect 50/50 faction balance, what percentage are in WM to pvp. Doesn’t matter, there’s a general balance. And if outnumbered, the tools are there, under player control, to re-balance. Lfg.

I think the bonus gives us a rich mix of player types tho, and to me, that’s a good thing. They all have their place in WM. PvEers are raid fodder for example. There’s always going to be imbalance, advantage or disadvantage. That helps wm be random awesome don’t know what’s going to happen carnage.

Complaints will happen no matter what. I’m just happy to have plenty targets. And judging by less or no complaints from Horde on having no targets, that prob seems fixed. Lack of targets for Horde was the real prob, not Alli feeling outnumbered. When Alli were perceived outnumbered, I didn’t care. Because I had no shortage of targets. Who cares if outnumbered, form a raid and try to destroy your enemy. That’s wpvp. Blizz gave us a rich wpvp environment. PvPers just wanna kill, plenty to kill.

Outnumbered? Group up. Wpvp is all about choice - forming alliances, or going solo. Both are fun, player choice and control.


#56

Things that are absolutely crucial for questing in war mode (especially during assaults):

  1. https://www.wowhead.com/item=164983/rhankas-escape-plan
  2. LFG up at all times to be ready to hop to another realm if you see 40 alliance approaching
  3. https://www.wowhead.com/item=109076/goblin-glider-kit
  4. Good anger management

(Shalim) #57

Yes, the majority of people in wm do that instead of fighting. They just run away instead of helping an ally that is fighting 1vs3.

Why? Because they want to complete their quest and don’t want to risk death for some random people.

So to everybody: if you are not in wm for PvP, please turn it off. You are just prey for PvP players, you will just cry in forums or reddit/wowhead when somebody will kill you.


#58

It wont. Alliance only enables the mode right after the reset with big groups and disable it right after quest is done.
Meaning next week they also get the bonus + quest for free loot, since Horde is playing with WM ON while Alliance is abusing the system to get rewards and is avoiding it beside that.

Whoever thought that making WM bonus check each week is good idea should be hanged.


(Shalim) #59

Might not be true. Limit just faction changed to Alliance for bonus. If more guilds do that, we will reach the ideal situation. Balance

Then we can remove bonus. As you can see the bonus does what it should. Balances the faction population and participation in wm.
Without motivation, nobody would faction change.

The less populated faction must get something more if we want to make people swap. There is no other way.


#60

Because there were no rewards perhaps. And obviously the expansion mood get you to do this.