World of Don't use your Main

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21

Maybe to you.

Have you ever noticed how popular Classic is? It sure seems to me that people like building characters with identity and interacting in a persistent open world.

Retail WoW seems to have nothing but people complaining about combat mechanics and imbalances and 3% performance metric.

You’ve told Blizzard to optimise and streamline away identity, character, exploration, and open world social interactions because it was kindda inconvenient. Those were the core design pillars! That is the centre around which WoW always revolved. You’ve optimised WoW out of WoW, and you’re constantly complaining about how boring and empty the game is. Well, guess why?

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22

Of this entire list, only M+, raids and arena matters. Random BGs are filled with dregs, so it’s not a problem to take your pve gear set and still obliterate everyone there. Old raids and dailies don’t require 100% effectiveness anyway.

Playing offspec will be troublesome for some classes, unless soulbind talent specs are bound to each spec’s loadout, and I don’t think they are.

23

And it’s stupid.

I did chose, it’s your problem you need some kind of RESTRICTION FROM BLIZZARD THEMSELVES to feel like your choice is solid. I don’t care for that line of thinking.
If Blizz didn’t want to give us multiple options, they shouldn’t give us multiple options.

I don’t care for your entitled reading of the RPG term. Wow is an MMORPG.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_game

A massively multiplayer online role-playing game ( MMORPG ) is a [video game] that combines aspects of a [role-playing video game] and a [massively multiplayer online game].

Now let’s go to RPG and MMO meanings for you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_video_game
A role-playing video game (commonly referred to as simply a role-playing game or an RPG as well as a computer role-playing game or a CRPG ) is a [video game genre where the player controls the actions of a character (and/or several party members) immersed in some well-defined world.

Oh look … we already do what the definition states! Amazing man… simply amazing how you guys swear by the RPG element, but here we already abide by it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game
A massively multiplayer online game ( MMOG , or more commonly, MMO ) is an [online game] with large numbers of players, often hundreds or thousands, on the same server.[[1]]MMOs usually feature a huge, [persistent] [open world], although some games differ.

Well what do you know, large players… same server. We got this checked as well!

The fact that something is changeable easily, does not affect you in any palpable way. It does affect my gameplay if it’s not changeable easily.

This is completely irrelevant, where are you going with this?

Hey i’ve already cleared up your WRONG thinking about what an RPG and MMORPG is. You’re wrong as per the definitions stated, go and read them again and again until you realize you and others who use self-made definitions of what those are are completely and utterly WRONG.

If you don’t wanna switch… then don’t? But i’m being forced… QQ. Grow a backbone and say NO.

And you see? This is MY CHOICE. Get with it. I’ve chosen it at the Character Creation Screen. This is after i’ve made that choice… repeat it with me AFTER.

I don’t care about your “social stigma” problem. Grow a backbone and refuse.

Who cares about that? It’s obtainable… get it with me OBTAINABLE.

Yes, it’s called content going the way of the DODO. We already have this, nobody cares.

Did i ask for your opinion on what I think matters to ME?
No i didn’t.

It’s about changing this from what we CAN do NOW, to what we CAN’T do in Shadowlands.

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24

Go stare into a wall for two weeks. It’s free!

Yet I can experiment and figure out what works in a given situation instead of being stuck to one thing and keep doing it over and over while it clearly isn’t effective. That’s the definition of insanity.

Those are arguments for a completely different topic. I don’t even consider that an issue as long as I have enough time to build those sets I want and put them to use, which I do. A tier doesn’t last a week. I have a set for single destro single target, destro cleave, demo and affliction and I can use them whenever I want on one character because I put the effort into gettng them.

A warlock isn’t great for M+, yet I still enjoyed playing it because I could just change my spec or build into what fits M+ after a raid night and go do keys with my buddies without wanting to rip my hair out because my character is currently built for single target and my AoE rotation feels clunky and awkward. But considering the gameplay aspect isn’t cool because surely I only care about the number and not that my class feels like crap in keys for nothing but arbitrary lockouts.

Now I’ll just wait for you to try and convince me that I can just optimize my soulbinds so it’s all good.

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25

:question: :question: :question: :question: :question: :thinking:

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Do you need live examples of what it would be if i locked Essences?

And i ask you, is it TRUE that it will be at reduced effectiveness or not?

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27

yes please. tell me how locked essences prevents your from oneshoting that content

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Yes, you did. You made the thread. Quit being so petty and bitter.

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29

I choice implies a restriction.

If I get a choice between 1 and 2, and I can choose 2 items, I didn’t make a choice. I just took them both. If I get 1 item and thereafter can’t choose 2, then I chose 1.

If you choose 1 for one combat scenario and 2 for another combat scenario and just swap it every time, you get to have both; you just take the one that’s most useful at the given moment. You haven’t made any choice at all.

They do, and they have.

Lmao that’s an awful definition.

By that definition friggin’ Duke Nukem 3D is an RPG. That’s a video game where you control the actions of a character (and you can co-op) and you’re immersed in a fictional world.

RPG’s are generally bourne from tabletop RPG’s. WoW, in particular, is. And those games are very different from that stupid af “definition”.

WoW’s world isn’t persistent anymore. It’s chock-full of portals and the people change every time you cross a zone boundary. It’s an MMORPG in the same way Guild Wars 1 is: Barely.

Yes it does - it means everyone will expect me to change it.

I’m pointing out you’re already making choices that affect your combat strength.

Yeah, and as described that definition’s utterly ridiculous.

It’s not a choice.

Ok bai guild.

Still is. You just chose not to obtain it :slight_smile:

Uhh… what?

So it is! Are you implying the game is completely unplayable and you’ll be staring into a wall for 2 weeks because you’re switching covenant?

I hope not. That’d be a very, very stupid thing to say, and you know it. You’re just throwing hyperbole.

You still can experiment. There’s loads of choices within a covenant. And they let you choose another, just in case.

Nah. It’s a choice.

So it’s okay to be able to swap some of the things but not all of the things in order to be kindda optimal but not fully optimal?

Oh, that’s interesting. Looks like nothing’s changed, then. You just think it has because you didn’t think about it for that long.

30

If essences were locked, i would not have a big damage button for horrific visions with crucible of flame, because i would have used vision of perfection mayor (because dungeons). Healers basically ‘need’ crucible for that content.

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The best WoW expansions were the ones of most restrictions. I don’t really care what people think of TBC and Wrath, those were awesome expansions. And in them you couldn’t do half the things you CAN do in current WoW. Remember the times when you had to pay gold to swap specs? Or struggling to pay for gear repairs? Keeping one gear set for “serious content” and another, blue one, for the world to keep repair costs low? MMOs require restrictions in order to be good. The more restrictions were lifted, the worse the game became.

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32

I don’t entirely agree, but you’re in the ballpark.

More choices make a better RPG, and more choices imply more restrictions - however if you make too many choices, the balancing can become too hard as it will allow thousands of builds that are literally incapable of completing the game, and that’s no good.

That’s not the case here. Any one of the builds presented in this expansion will be capable of defeating Mythic Sire Denathrius. Just quit worrying about Warcraftlogs. Same people don’t care if you’re on percentile 67 rather than 70. That’s not what it’s about.

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33

Imagine demonology warlock has been like that since the beginning, barely OK in 1 mode and completely unplayable in other.

It’s not that hard to make every spec work in all content but you need people to work on them except a team that have no clue about what they are doing.

34

Why are you DPS brains always like this? It’s not ONLY about DPS.

Faster movement speed and teleport in the world through Ripple in Space or
setting up 1 shots with Breath of the Dying.

Do you have a problem with me using what the game provides?

No, you’re talking about what I, ME personally should find acceptable.
Wait man, you were talking about what YOU find acceptable?
Or were you saying what I should find acceptable?
Clarify. :slight_smile:

35

Ther HAS TO be a healthy balance in that. Back then Vanilla worked well because information was slowly gathered, and it wasn’t so apparent what is optimal, what is weak, etc. Also they kept balancing classes and abilities between patches.

But even now in Classic. Why do you think that over half of the characters are mages? Because it’s by far the best class for the game for nearly all of the activities in the game, AND it’s the fastest to level.

Unfortunately people are way too hung up on min-maxing. But this cannot be helped. They brought back Classic, but people min-max it to oblivion too with barely any character identity, they keep getting world buffs for hours than log out and not play, just to make the raid night like 20 mins shorter, it’s total madness.

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Ah, so many choices makes things interesting and hard to work out?

Imagine that!

Yep, Classic has the problem of already being solved.

A retail version with the same design pillars would not have that problem because it hasn’t been solved, just like vanilla wasn’t. That’s the problem with Classic in a nutshell. It’s not vanilla that’s broken, it’s just vanilla that’s old.

Absolutely can. Just break them and their stupid meta-slavery. They’ll give up eventually and start enjoying diverse characters and beautiful worlds again - just wait and see.

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37

You don’t get to decide what I find as restriction or not.
Having them not being able to be changed in combat is a restriction.
I don’t have them at the same time usable, no matter how much you try to say i do.

They give us multiple options and TIME-GATE them. That’s the issue.

I don’t care for your made-up definition. It’s written right there what an RPG is, i think i’ll follow wikipedia definition instead of a random wow poster’s biased definition.

The definition states multiple players on the same server. Guess what, that is in fact what WoW has. And it doesn’t exclude having separate instances or linking servers through crz.

Yeah, say no to them. Is it too much for you?

And i already said it’s an irrelevant minor gain.

Sure man, you keep using your own made-up definition.

Rofl at you saying that what i actually chose is not a choice.

Sad. Sad that you can’t stand up for yourself that is.

We already know content X will expire in Y days, nobody cares about this, we get what we get from it.

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38

That is in fact exactly what I’m doing because nobody is claiming the game is unplayable, but considerably less fun than it could have been simply for the reason that it offers vastly different types of content that favor different builds, but you can only fully enjoy one to it’s full potential.

Oh yeah? You mean my ability to swap between reduced durability loss or extra random mats within the soulbind tree?

Or are you implying that I can still experiment, but only once a week and only one way? Because that’s exactly my problem.

Excuse me, what? Content being outdated after a period of time is a choice? Are you getting lost in your own arguments?

I think a delicious cake with a massive turd on top of it is still great. I mean, most of the cake is still fine.

I also think it should be a law to choose at the age of 18 if we only want to use sugar or salt in our food. I mean, we can already mix so many other ingredients. And if we want to change that decision, we should need to appeal it with the goverment and wait.

The “you can already customize so many other things” argument is as stupid as both examples above. I’ve literally played with those things, I can tell the experience is trash, and you think telling me that I “haven’t thought about it long enough” somehow makes you right.

39

I can safely guarantee you that my tank who’s specifically equipped for m+ will be much stronger in m+ than my tank who’s specifically equipped for raiding, in Shadowlands.

My main will be the strongest in Raiding, my M+ char will be the strongest in M+ and my pvp char will only be strong in PvP. That’s what Soulbinds and Conduits barrel down to. Pick a character for each aspect of the game, rather than play all aspects.

Right now, my main can switch between TD gear for raiding and versa gear for m+ and is equally valuable in both contents, given the option to switch azerite traits without cooldown, talents without cooldown and essences without cooldown. I’ve invested a fair bit of time into getting him there, but he got there.

In Shadowlands, I won’t be able to bring my main, my raid char, up to the same level of competitiveness for both raiding as well as m+. I’ll have to choose, one a weekly cooldown, which content I want to be best in.

So no, my main won’t be my strongest and most effective character, because I’ll be playing three different characters of the same class to make up for blatantly obvious issues with covenants and soulbinds. My PvP char will be most effective and strong in PvP, my m+ char will be most effective and strong in m+ and my main will be most effective and strong in raiding.

Can I do every other content with every single one of them? Sure, I can.

But can I do it as well as if I’ve had a better covenant, conduit or soulbinds? Nope. And that’s the issue here.

Of course you can clear every content as every class / spec / conduit / soulbind / covenant combination (what a world we live in, to go from class / spec combination to class / spec / conduit / soulbind / covenant).

But can you also clear it while being as effective as somebody else, with the exact same gear, talents, spec, race, class but different soulbinds, conduits and covenants? No you can’t.

I don’t know about you, but I don’t like dragging down people because I liked a certain transmog more. And that’s the issue many people have.

Why not both? In wotlk, we had playable alts that were somewhat easily brought up to par, both in level as well as equipment AND we have had the option of switching to one out of two specs, without any issue whatsoever. Get your gear, pay that bit of gold for dual talent spec and you’re good to go to play two different specs without any friction.

Why is “Either you have weaker mains or unplayable alts” even the option given? There’s no good reason why we’d have to decide between one or the other, let’s be real.

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40

People changing builds to something that feels considerably better to play in different situation? Those horrible, dirty meta-slaves!

Tanks going into more survivability focused builds after discovering they need it to survive certain mechanics? So horrible!

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