World of warcraft a.k.a. Pay To Win

Ah you mean like in Classic where people solo’d dungeons for tons of raw gold, pickpocketing BRD for tons of raw gold and more to the point tons of people had 50k+ gold by the end?

Uh huh, sure thing. So, Shadowlands raids surely don’t get killed the day they rel- oh yes they do! Huh. Imagine that.

Lol what? Citation needed.

Also, my ideal game is to do raids etc. Why would I farm hyperspawn stuff to pay for people to do the good stuff for me.
You’re literally acting like all people do is try to earn gold so they can pay boosters. It’s not that clear cut.

Again - forget Classic. This was not the meta in Vanilla. And you can be certain, Shadowlands also has these broken systems that were exploited in Classic. We just haven’t found them yet. Just recently a new glitch was discovered in MGS, which will change how that game is speedran. Over 20 years after the game’s come out, it’s meta is changing.

Classic is not a good example, because we’ve had 15 years to discover exploits, broken systems and turn those systems to our advantage. Shadowlands HAS THEM TOO, we just don’t know them yet.

What are you talking about? Did the race to world first end the day the raid dropped? Come on. You realize that the current “heroic” raids used to be called “normal”? And all of Vanilla’s raids are basically “mythic only”? Here’s the story. Blizz started with one raid difficulty. Then they added 2 raid difficulties - the original one was called heroic, and the new one was called normal. Then they added a 3rd difficulty - flex raids, a new difficulty between LFR and normal.

Then flex became normal, normal became heroic and heroic became mythic. And the flexible part of raiding was extended to LFR, normal and heroic.

So when we’re talking about content being cleared within hours of dropping, we’re talking about the mythic raid.

Raid was cleared within hours of release, as usual? Just like Classic, as you pointed out.

Ah so classic hasn’t been cleared yet? Got it.

Actually, Classic only released August 2019. Didn’t leave that much time now did it? :3

Learn to read, silly.

I know you’re a triggered little fly, who responds before even reading my reply. Don’t worry, we’ve all been there.

I can read just fine, maybe you should too? Welcome, Please Read!

Your comprehension skills are on the level of a 4 year old. I’ll spell it out simply - Classic only has Mythic raids. The only reason they were cleared immediately and were considered easy is because Classic’s population has had those raids on farm for 15 years. The guilds that got world first in Classic were all guilds that played non-stop on private servers and in fact we know some guilds practiced content on private servers before it went live on Classic.

Over the years, Blizzard has only been adding easier raid difficulties.

Shadowlands has 3 difficulties, all of which are lower than Classic’s “mythic only” raids. The reason why the mythic wasn’t cleared within hours after dropping is because speedrunning strats weren’t yet developed. And they still aren’t - but if we had Shadowlands private servers which reset every few months, and players learn to speed run things, you’ll see mythic raid on a fresh server go down in around 2 hours after release.

You should really look into how long it takes for a speed run to be invented. I think I mentioned how just 2 days ago, the MGS speed running scene was kind of shaken up, because a new thing was discovered in the game. 20 years after release.

I’ll give you a prediction - I think in Shadowlands Classic 15 years from now, many bis covenants will be different. Maybe you’ll see over 90% warriors go necrolord for the raid-wide damage buff which you can have on rotation, my dude. Currently, the meta revolves around individual performance, but when we’re talking about collective speed-running (which is what classic had), the meta focuses entirely around the team. We may even see nightfae becoming the meta for paladins, but I’m not sure how strong that buff actually is.

Classic is not Vanilla. Kinda why I quit it. I wanted to have a chill, slow RPG experience and instead I got a speedrun fest where if you played a 0.1% suboptimally you were shunned.

Agreed! thats why it is pay to win.
maybe for some people
pay to get an advantage is an better explanation

Normal, actually. Mythic was added in 6.2. You can speculate what the ‘equivalent difficulty vs time and how good the community is’ blah blah blah some other time.

Lmk when you can back up your words and not whataboutisms.

Gonna talk about Wrath, cata, MoP, or WoD pservers or no? :3 Just a couple years short of ‘classic’ and ‘tbc’.

So, you think SL is played as casual and what not because it’s ‘new and unknown’ and all that and no meta etc? :3

I’m not sure how this relates to what I wrote. You can literally have gold sinks for anything, mounts, titles, pets, cosmetics. Why on earth would anyone want the gold sink to become a barrier to fun which it would if you added an exponential respec cost, it makes no sense and it was stupid in BFA too. It just becomes a point of contention and in the end it becomes an underutilized feature because it’s not worth it for the vast majority of people playing, experimentation should be encouraged, not punished.

Also this game has had a broken economy since WoD and we’re still going and any gold sink won’t even make a dent as long as the mission tables keep churning out new gold.

No. The contemporary raid difficulty was named Heroic and an easier, Normal was introduced. I already wrote the timeline of raid difficulties, but I’ll write it again. Just to remind you that you don’t read.

After Heroic (original raid difficulty) and Normal, LFR was added. In 5.4, flex raids were added. Flex was a mode that existed between LFR and Normal. In 6.0.2, Flex was renamed to normal, normal was renamed to heroic and heroic was called mythic. The flexible mode was also extended to LFR, Normal and Heroic.

Classic only has mythic raids. To be fair, the main reason why Blizz renamed normal to heroic is to make more casual players feel like pros. This is part of an ongoing ActiBlizz initiative. In CoD, the equivalent happened by removing assists and counting ALL kills that you somehow assist with as your own personal kills. This caused players to feel more like pros without actually requiring better, pro skill of them, getting massive killstreaks without actually getting kills.

Yes, you WILL see the same thing with Wrath Classic, too. The meta will be massively different compared to when Wrath was released. Mark my words.

SL is played with our current knowledge of the game. Give us 15 years of playing this game and our knowledge is bound to expand, which will result in a changed meta. I even gave you possible examples of how the meta might shift with years without changing the game.

Give me one reason I would buy a mount. Go on, I am waiting.

False, unless you think mythic encounters have the same number of events and things going on as Classic raids which are normal only.

Normal was the only difficulty then, you know when players were learning MMORPGs and didn’t know what they were doing. It’s in no way equal to Mythic difficulty raid clears.

Haha for the one talking about how I can’t read, hmm.

Yeah guys, I’m sure shadowlands mythic will totally be the equal difficulty of Classic raids. So brave.

Wonder how SL raids get cleared on normal and heroic so quickly on release yet they’re harder fights than Classic? You said new content won’t have the ‘metas’ and all that but it seems they do. and they get toppled over. But keep throwing the ad homs and all that.

I’m sure you know so much about WoW having started playing it in 2018.

People are literally camping the BMAH to bid gold cap on mounts, it doesn’t matter if you specifically wouldn’t buy one. Can’t say the same about BfA’s failed respec gold sink, no one used it except those who had no choice.

You can just browse the classic forums for a bit and you’ll see the people complaining about having to skip PvE or PvP because re-speccing from one to the other is dumb. Such a successful system when it discourages people from playing entire portions of the game.

That’s kinda the point. Everyone saying the gold sinks I propose will hurt “the average player” are wrong. The average player doesn’t reset their build between pulls. The average player picks a build and sticks to it. The average player maybe will swap talents once a week. Gold sinks won’t hurt them.

The brutosaur offers a huge advantage. It’s literally the only mount worth buying, and even then, it’s only a tiny amount of the population who has an interest in pursuing it. Mounts as a gold sink simply do not work, because most won’t spend millions on a mount. Also, while the brutosaur worked, it targeted only specific players and failed to drain enough gold out of many. We’re talking about players with multiple gold-capped characters on multiple servers.

Mounts are one-time gold sink, where if you spend the gold once, you’re done with the sink. That’s not good, and overall fails.

The situation is dire, mate.

And I’m done considering complaining about boosting valid, when the situation is pretty clear, I’ve explained it like 1364 times in this thread alone, and nobody wants to address it. Everybody is quick to denounce gold sinks and nobody has a better suggestion.

Yes yes… you know better then everyone. Mount gold sinks dont work and im sure the player base would love an increasing respecc cost on whatever borrowed power thats in use atm.

So lets make it cost 1k and eatch time one respeccs conduits or covenant… whatever it increases by 50%… so say a person respecs 10ish times that would make the total gold spent what… near 1mil gold?

Im sure the player base would love that kind of gold sink and im sure it wouldnt rise the prices on about everything in game at all ^^

And what if all 3 of your specs use the same soulbind like warlock, or if you’re a demon hunter and you enjoy tanking and dpsing. Then what? Should people who enjoy playing their whole class just suck it up and pay exponentially more and more gold because they don’t want to just stick with 1 thing?

When it starts making more sense to level a new character or farm out a whole new set like in BfA than it is to engage with the provided respec system, you have a bad system.

That’s just 1 mount you can buy on the BMAH. Even mounts you can still obtain go for millions on the BMAH, TCG and T3 go for hundreds of thousands to millions. Cosmetics is the only gold sink that works but it’s not like everything has to cost millions either.

Says the guy who keeps bringing up a system we all saw fail in BfA and is not exactly popular in classic either apart from with #nochanges gang.

I wonder how you can think like this. Inflation doesn’t matter. Even if I will get 50 gold for boosting a 15 that purchase power will stay the same. Imagine thinking the hardcore players have the most gold. No dood, the people that have the most gold are advertisers and AH flippers, majority of whom don’t raid. Forgot to mention multiboxers. On top of that like 25% the players of the mythic raiding guilds are poor as a wharf rat and constantly cause problems with not having money for pots or to repairs. That’s why boosts exist, so you can give them money so they can raid. The gold sinks like 600k gold for a legendary do not help.

Nobody disagrees that gold sinks are the way, its just you’re targeting it wrong.

Put damn player housing in and sell golden toilets for 500 million gold. Someone will buy one. Yea, my idea isn’t good but its about as good as the stuff mentioned here, and at least its novel.

1 Like

How glad i am that Popgligor is not in Blizz to make those ideas reality, they’d run the game in to the ground faster than the current devs ever could.

Making raiding expensive as hell would be a death sentence to it, even now it’s quite costly unless you farm all your consumables

None of the suggestions target people who mass up gold for the sake of having gold or who don’t raid.

Only gold sinks that could work are amazing unique transmog and unique mounts, not just some recolours or reskins.

nice to see u all agree