Then they should make the auras great “again”.
Check now here (only for druid class tree atm… but give them some time for the other specs):
Much easier to get a feel now.
2 Likes
Looks worse than Wrath-Cata and MoP.
Just terrible. You will fail with number tuning again and last patch DF is finally in playable state in 2024.
FU WoWTeam
3 Likes
I think one of the more glaring design faults in this one is the fact that resto druids get Nature’s Cure baseline but still have to throw a point on Remove Corruption just to access Wild Growth (and the rest of the shared resto talents).
What i wrote is failed attempt of joke with me being the subject, in a sense: me stupid. Thanks for link tho, its nice preview.
I think the point with those is they are free for one spec but the other 2 specs can pick them up if they want to.
I see what you saying 
but the glorious days are gone
You will never get back well crafted classes and abilities or even talents
people that now work in blizzard play World of warcraft completely different way.
Tmog and collecting shiny stuff is the thing that rules wow right now
the WOTLK/CATA/MOP days were a min maxing days that will never happen again
We had so much stuff in the spell book and cool talents on top of that
and that was confusing for many people cause they didn’t want to read or think about their decisions they just wanted to play the game
so over time blizzard literally killed the SOUL of this game because
to put it simple
accessibility destroyed this game
Simple example here again
Do you remember a stance switching as ARMS war in cata?
many people thought it was terrible gameplay.
it just show you what kind of players now play the game
Why is that a design fault? You will pretty much always want to have Remove Corruption as a resto anyways since Nature’s Cure can’t remove curses by itself.
Nature’s Cure: Cures harmful effects on the friendly target, removing all Magic effects. Combines with Remove Corruption if known.
So they split that? I didn’t notice it, my bad. I assumed it was the same Nature’s Cure we have now and didn’t read too much into it.
As a side note, I realized why druid was the first tree to be shown back at the reveal. All affinity spells are in the general class tree now, that’s like 20 abilities which provide quite a good backbone to build the tree around. For other classes they need to think carefully what abilities will be shared and what stays spec specific.
Rip a talanet for feral? they removed like all our CC? FERAL GONE in arena!..
im not even gonna buy this exp, All hype gone and im only playing feral. This is crap for PvP
1 Like
Looks horrible so far. Not that I expected anything else, They already said classes would change very little. Another pruning in disguise? LOL.
3 Likes
For anyone interested there is a website that has a ready Talent calculator:
https://mythictrap.com/dragonflights-talents
5 Likes
You were literally 2 seconds faster than me
3 Likes
So, we’ll get all of these talents?
You won’t fill out the whole talent tree, you’ll make choices and be able to make different builds.
This thread has a link to a page where they created a clickable talent system based on what Blizzard has shown us.
what utility ?
The worst part about all of this is, that Blizzard and the players who are pro-this new talent system are all absolutely right. Ideally, a talent setup like this DOES offer more choice and paths to choose from than the old talent system.
However, as it currently stands, these two example talent trees (Druid and DK) do not do justice to that philosophy. At all.
Instead of offering us choices, you offer us false choices. The DK class talent tree and and the druid one both excemplify this to an extent, with abilities like raise dead and tank defensive cooldowns being down the line, which makes no sense whatsoever. You’re going to have to pick those same abilities up from this talent tree, as you currently have: And the reason to that is rather simple.
You haven’t changed class design at all in regards to these two classes, and as such, all the abilities and talents that are offered as “choices” in these trees are actually no choices at all. Instead, this whole talent tree feels like you are outsourcing class design to the playerbase, because you have for the past 8 or so years failed to nail it, after the Legion class design rework. It feels like you lack any vision on where to take the classes to, and you are masquerading this new talent tree as your attempt to offer choices, when in truth you are outsourcing the class design to the playerbase.
For example, I have no clue why do you have things like soothe and hibernate in this talent tree. What does the player gain from having those niche abilities that are not used a lot in the first place as talents? Now they will see even less play, or worse yet, you are going to have to trade something really crucial to your class to have them in those niche situations. Will the player feel empowered about having to choose? No, they will feel robbed that you have taken abilities and talents from them that they have had baseline to their class for the last +12 years and now you are telling them they were somehow problematic to be available to the whole class, and this new choice system makes them more important?
And the biggest complaint I have about this system is that it is plain and simple prune. You SAID, you PROMISED that you would -NOT- prune. And yet, looking at this talent, I am looking at these two classes alone going to have 5-7 less keybinds than they currently do. You promise one thing, but do the complete opposite.
Now, with all that negativity aside, how would I fix this system?
It’s honestly quite simple, but I doubt you will do it, because that actually requires you to work with them, rather than just plaster them with whatever cast out stuff you managed to scrape off of the bottom of the barrel.
-
First, get everything that is currently baseline back to the classes as they are. Then, do away, remove and/or change things that people simply do not use. Slam for fury warriors, shield block for arms warriors come to mind, etc.
-
Second, Design the paths in both the class and spec talent tree in ways that allow you to choose drastically how your spec plays / its damage is generated.
To give a concrete example, rather than making ghoul a talent in the DK talent tree, just flat out offer a talent that allows you to sacrifice your pet like a warlock and gain bonus to some of your abilities/damage passively. Offer a path to completely forgo festering wounds as a mechanic, and focus more on just throwing diseases and/or deathcoils at the enemy.
Rather than offering existing baseline abilities as talent choices, offer alternations and choices in the following way: A talent for example that gives thrash a 6 second cooldown, but it now causes you to cast a trash every time you are struck, up to x amount of times, or one that causes your mangle to passively strike adjecent enemies. This way, you’re adding and making classes feel more powerful as was your intention with the talent trees, rather than taking away from them baseline kit and wrapping it up into a talent tree and telling the playerbase it’s something new.
-
3rd, get rid of these path choices of “increases x by y amount, rank 1 and 2” talents alltogether. Bake them into specs and classes, as they currently are. If you can’t add anything interesting in their place, just reduce the amount of talents in the tree.
-
For the love of god, ADD SOME NEW ABILITIES, PASSIVES AND TALENTS. Why are you so allergic to designing anything new? Why did it take you over 8 years to just add a new god damn talent row, and now you’re not even doing that?
Why the hell are we stuck with the same classes and talents as we were 8 years ago? Before legion, class design was done almost every expansion with the idea that classes gre worganically, some things were removed each expansion, some new things were added every expansion.
Nowadays, we do get things pruned and/or put into talent trees as choices, but we don’t get new stuff! We get stuff scraped off of previous expansions in the form of azerite armor passives and legendary effects, rather than adding anything new. Are you creatively bankrupt, or what?
I know my feedback comes off as harsh, but can you blame me? You’ve lied to us for the past 8 years about listening to feedback, and yet, here we are. People keep saying this is just alpha, but before you know it, it’s beta. It’s prepatch. And then it won’t be fixed, players are used as beta testers for the duration of the expansion.
I want this new expansion to succeed: I really do. But it just feels like you got this whole thing upside down.
You want to introduce big changes, but you clearly refuse to put the work into it that is necessary to achieve those goals.
You outsource class design and building to your customers. While its true there will always be a “correct” path in terms of cookie cutter builds, the fact that you’re not creating something completely NEW with class design and THEN giving that said class design in the form of the new talent trees to the players to experiment with just proves that you have no idea how to even balance the current classes and you’re just throwing the problem out to the players, because you think it’s too much work to work it out yourselves.
All in all, I give it a solid 3/10 at this point. There are good foundations, good ideas, but the idea is plagued by developer laziness, incompetence and lack of creativity. And that’s that
8 Likes
Looking for Druid here, i think the Class Tree is ok more or less in its current form. I dont get why i Have to take “soothe” to get some Mobility. I got no problem with it cause “soothe” is an ok ability but where is the connection there?
Btw the informations for all baseline abilities do not mention “shred” for Feral, so i assume it will be baseline.
Next; i dont need to skill “Wild Growth” if im playing PvP Resto druid i dont really need the spell, its ok for me to get it so far down in the tree. On the other side the resto tree its getting crazy, the left side is playing switcheroo with my head, why why why is there choices to be made between AOE and Singletarget Healing ???
“Efflo” → AOE
“Improved Lifebloom” → Single
“Unstoppable Growth” → AOE (I will not take Wild growth in the first place so the points are useless
either “SOTF” → “Nourish” (“SOTF” is like mandatory in pvp since i can think of it… in Raid this addon you would only play it when you aquired the 4set or maybe for some bosses), “Nourish” is only singletarget, weather it will be good or ok i cant tell, but the only use i could see is within Arena PvP ( SO WHY IS IT NEEDED TO SKILL AOE SKILLS THAT SEE ABSOLUTLY NO USE IN ARENA???)
Then NEXT “OVERGROWTH” → Only played in PvP → some of the rest following on this side of the tree seems to be ok. “Adaptive swarm” without the Lego is singletarget only, its great for Arena, will not see any play in other group contant because it can not spread. (M+ for dmg it could be ok, need to see in game, without the conduit to boost the effect it could be not worth taking it. And for the most players it wont be, only players in high keys will focus more on dmg than healing)
“germination” as well → Mostly Arena.
I thought the Trees will give me more opportunity to further specialize the Spec tree. Simply in (AOE / Single Target, for example)
I get you dont want to give us all the Spells to play, some Talents on the same row in the current system are to powerful to get both. I think thats ok. On the other side in Raid it was possible for me to get “Tree of Life” and “Convoke”, from the get go without the 4 Set. And for now it will be the way you dont want it to be. In the BluePost you said you dont want us the feel Weaker than in Shadowlands. As Druid on side of the Class tree its working i seem to can get one or to more thinks to play with. On the Spec tree i get less “Baseline”.
Overall i like the new system i think it is the right direction going fordward.
Greetings[quote=“Boendìl-lordaeron, post:102, topic:361707, full:true”]
Looking for Druid here, i think the Class Tree is ok more or less in its current form. I dont get why i Have to take “soothe” to get some Mobility. I got no problem with it cause “soothe” is an ok ability but where is the connection there?
Btw the informations for all baseline abilities do not mention “shred” for Feral, so i assume it will be baseline.
Next; i dont need to skill “Wild Growth” if im playing PvP Resto druid i dont really need the spell, its ok for me to get it so far down in the tree. On the other side the resto tree its getting crazy, the left side is playing switcheroo with my head, why why why is there choices to be made between AOE and Singletarget Healing ???
“Efflo” → AOE
“Improved Lifebloom” → Single
“Unstoppable Growth” → AOE (I will not take Wild growth in the first place so the points are useless
either “SOTF” → “Nourish” (“SOTF” is like mandatory in pvp since i can think of it… in Raid this addon you would only play it when you aquired the 4set or maybe for some bosses), “Nourish” is only singletarget, weather it will be good or ok i cant tell, but the only use i could see is within Arena PvP ( SO WHY IS IT NEEDED TO SKILL AOE SKILLS THAT SEE ABSOLUTLY NO USE IN ARENA???)
Then NEXT “OVERGROWTH” → Only played in PvP → some of the rest following on this side of the tree seems to be ok. “Adaptive swarm” without the Lego is singletarget only, its great for Arena, will not see any play in other group contant because it can not spread. (M+ for dmg it could be ok, need to see in game, without the conduit to boost the effect it could be not worth taking it. And for the most players it wont be, only players in high keys will focus more on dmg than healing)
“germination” as well → Mostly Arena.
I thought the Trees will give me more opportunity to further specialize the Spec tree. Simply in (AOE / Single Target, for example)
I get you dont want to give us all the Spells to play, some Talents on the same row in the current system are to powerful to get both. I think thats ok. On the other side in Raid it was possible for me to get “Tree of Life” and “Convoke”, from the get go without the 4 Set. And for now it will be the way you dont want it to be. In the BluePost you said you dont want us the feel Weaker than in Shadowlands. As Druid on side of the Class tree its working i seem to can get one or to more thinks to play with. On the Spec tree i get less “Baseline”.
Overall i like the new system i think it is the right direction going fordward.
Greetings
Edit: I dont think “wild Charge/Dash” should be in the Tree as it is for now, I need to take either Tank or Healing points to get it. This feels bad. Resto and Guardian where the two specs that needed this less than the other two.
However i build my “Resto” Talents in both trees i end up with 6 points invested that dont have ANY inpact whatsoever. And still, i cant get some abilities that would have. (and im not even talking about taking a kick as resto druid). This seems to me very bad, to spend this much points to get abilities i dont need/want or to boost abilities i did not even skill just to unlock a talent row i really need.
1 Like
We already had interupts and all the good utility in our spellbook and they took it away because they can’t figure out new talents to enhance player experience.
why?
why not try to do someting that’s new and interesting
They are going completely wrong way
i do not want to choose between interupt or other stuff
i want to have it and pick talents that will do something interesting for me
Trust me there is plenty of ways and plenty games to steal a cool stuff from
1 Like
yeah, exactly. I think one of the above pusters put it really well:
This is 100% what I think.
Take out the core ability stuff from the trees, leave in modifiers, ability changers and new talents and cool stuff, etc. Then, it would be way more solid.
Problem is, that means a lot of work. 80% of those talent trees currently consist of stuff that classes have currently baseline.
For non-dps/tank specs, they could also leave the kick option into the talent trees, so healers could choose that.
5 Likes
So in other words they offer us smoke and mirrors. Pruned Legion core design and classes are missing IMPORTANT core utilities and put them on Talent Trees instead as a choice. “Oh so you want Cone Of Cold as Fire Mage? Sure, but you can’t take Blink at the same time etc.”
Disgusting, vile, disrespectful and hateful.
Why Im being so mean? Because WOW IS BAD GAME RIGHT NOW. It USED TO BE GOOD GAME.
5 Likes