Not taken out of context? U did not even consider the first part of the paragraph or what I wrote after, you just quoted the part "I joined the Horde raid’. You completely took I joined the raid out of context. I joined cause I felt like I deserved revenge. No I do not completely blame the quest for it, I also blame the fact that Alliance players are acting like children and have 0 ethical evaluation for anything around them, like u through ur comments/ Also escape? I AM A WARRIOR , I have a leap and a charge, that is pretty much it, + a DK just pulls me back in after my leap and in case I somehow get out of the grip DH literally flies down on me and makes it as impossible as it gets. Don’t call BS as it just makes u look stupid if a person is talking truth… which I am. If u want I can comment from my 120 alliance chars and u can see 'em.
PS. I got a level 120 DK on Alliance and 120 druid, trust me I am out in the world a lot and I do not get ganked as often on Alliance as horde. As a matter of fact in a last month I do not believe I got killed once on my druid and I did get killed a couple of times as DK. Meanwhile on my horde warrior I got killed 10 times in a span of 1 hour.
i really think each level bracket(battleground bracket) should have it’s own world phase in warmode,
therefore you will only see players within the same 10 level bracket as you - making pvp totally fair, disregarding twinks
I dont hate him. I cant hate someone who i know is 100% inferior to me in all aspects. I just dislike him because he is like a annoying bug, always comming to piss you off and bring stupid arguments. You know, when you are in your room, late night, in the summer time, with the windows open and the only light is comming from the monitor and suddently you see a annoying fly that buzzes in front of it? Yes, thats him.
Thats the difference i was talking about. We know when to “do” wpvp and when not. To spoil others people fun, just to annoy them, thats a sick behviour. I dont say that horde players dont do the same, but the ratio of players behaving like that is higher, much,much higher at alliance side.
Why? Truth hurts?
Already tried. And when you are on alliance side, its 10x times easier: beside the bonuses you get, the examples i gaved above have applied in very few cases,compared to when i play as a horde. Again, i repeat, this is from my own experience. Maby when i play my horde main i am so unlucky to meet only scum alliance players and when i play alliance alt i am lucky to “not meet” so many horde scums…i dont know…but the testing was done and thats the result. I am sorry, this is who you are.
Because,beside the fact that i get the bonus (yes, only 10%, but its ok), i also like to pvp in open world. So with WM enabled, i get both. But there are some limits. Usually horde players dont atack lonely ally players unless they are provoked. When 2-3 horde players are in a wq zone and see a lonely ally doing the same wq, they leave him alone. They know that the fight would be 100% unfair and without any satisfaction, to thatswhy they dont atack him. That cant be said about ally players.
As i said above, this type of “honor” doesnt apply to all horde players, but a very high percentage of us behave like this. We also have our “rotten tomatoes”, but not as many as ally have.
I didnt complained. I just presented my experience. As i said above, my open world experience is quite high and i encountered many situation like the examples above. When i was in the other side, i didnt encountered so many situations.
Dont confuse sharing a opinion with a complain.
Now (today) it isnt. But when patch 8.1.5 started, that was a real boost for the alliance. To get a free 400 ilvl item while everyone else barely had a 390, that is a boost.
Where they admitted that?
And how is it that during AOO, this “imbalance” turned to be a advantage? Even now ,after countless AOO quests, extra bonus and so on, you still keep low numbers of players with WM on. Why?
You know that you lie yourself? Right? Everyone knows that the horde is orientated to PVE (thatswhy 80% of world firsts are made by horde and usually horde players have a average ilvl higher than alliance) and that alliance is orientated to PVP (we all know that 70-75% of BG’s are won by alliance, all good pvp-ers are mostly alliance,etc).
Ofc…we the “pve-ers” tell you “pvp-ers” to keep WM off…and you listen. Thank you for your obedience.
Ion admits there were challenges when BfA launched that often saw the Horde outnumber the Alliance. However by the time they fixed those most Alliance had turned WM off and more Horde were turning it on even though they had no intention of PVPing. It is question 2 of the interview.
Because the Horde still outnumbers the Alliance and thus still get the quest. If the Alliance outnumbered the Horde by 20% or so they would get the quest. You could argue the Alliance player base is either being clever and turning WM off so they get it again or they just turn it on to get the quest. I didn’t say it was perfect or even a valid solution but it is what it is. Blizzard admitted that since they fixed the initial sharding issue and introduced this quest the numbers have balanced more. This is true as region wise the Alliance used to get a 30% bonus now they only get 15 and 20%, so not perfect but definitely some success.
Please explain how I am lying? The reason the Alliance get the bonus and the quest in the first place is because there are more Horde with WM on. It really is that simple. High end world first and high end gaming is a poor judgement of actual overall gaming figures. Especially as only a small number of players do very high end competitive content.
What? All I am saying is if you don’t like being ganked than turn warmode off. Whether you are a PVE’er or a PVP’er whatever. Simply turn it off and either just do PVE or be a PVP’er who does the more balanced BG and Arenas.
very low ilvl, or very high ilvl 120 players killing lowbies.
i dont get how a 410 player killing people in hellfire peninsula, or a 300 player interfering with people trying to lvl via legion invasions is true wpvp. it is mainly people who most likely cant kill people normally either at the same lvl, or without high lvl gear.
also lets get something straight, this happens on both sides. their are idiots/cowards/pathetic players on horde AND alliance who think its cool or fun to kill people 10-100 lvls lower than them. this is a problem with the mindset of the player, not the faction, or anything in the game.
what will happen in a lot of cases is people will get annoyed of this while lvling, and just turn off WM forever, even when they cap, because they remember the bad experience. this means less people in wpvp overall.
if it wasn’t for the incentives given with the buff, by now i would bet a large portion of players with WM on would have turned it off. good job lowbie gankers, you’ve reduced the number of people who would do WM cause you have to kill a lvl 60 with your 120. such a big boy.
the other big issue is sharding or whatever. having seen this from both factions, i can say with confidence that being alone while facing a MASSIVE group of the opposing faction happens on both sides, and often. this will contribute to people feeling its pointless in WM cause their faction is non existent.
True WPvPers never WM off, those are the ones that matter most in WM. The offers can stay off and WM benefits, they are the type to leave a group when the going gets tough.
Being outnumbered is normally just an LfG group or player distribution, not the shard balance. Anyone that sees being outnumbered as a problem for WM, is not a true WPvPer. It’s what WPvPers are looking for - the enemy in sufficient numbers to have a fun battle.
i spose it comes down to “what is wpvp?” i like pvp, though bg’s rather than arena/1v1 as it is like a battle with objectives rather than whos class currently is op in a 3 second burst window, so with the announcement of BfA and WM i was interested and looking forward to trying wpvp for the pvp aspect, not the rewards. while initially it was ok, with teams of about equal size fighting each other, (usually about 5-10 on each side) it soon grew very boring as it basically turned into 40 man raids hunting down 2-3 players. and heaven help you if you are under 120.
so yeah, what is wpvp? if it is some 120 a$$ spam killing a lvl 60 and the quest npcs, while trying to quest, or 40 people camping a quest site where there are 2-3 of the opposite faction, then i think you can keep your wpvp and it sorta shows your mentality.
i dont think so as it happens so often, on both factions. also now you cant complete the quests in a raid group means this is even less likely. dont try to defend blizzards bad implementation of their tech.
again what is wpvp? and what do you deem sufficient numbers? anything more than 3v1 and you basically have no chance, and even then you have to be very good, and they have to be very bad, and class/spec makes a big difference. cause i dont consider 40v5 as a fun battle. if that doesn’t make me a pvper in your eyes, then i’ll stick to instanced where there is a real challenge.
What is WPvP? It’s anything goes PvP… anything. It’s not about even numbers, never has been since day one. Any tactic that achieves your goal is the right one.
Sufficient numbers depend on what the goal of a particular group is. For gank groups, overwhelming force is always optimal.
Some players try to impose their own rules, when there are none. WM is not a bg, it’s chaos. The best place to go for fair fights is a bg or arena, that’s why the option is there to WM on or off.
WM sharding is imperfect. But it does the job. We have the potential for even fights, outnumbered, or the outnumberer. LfG can make up the numbers. Does it always work out? No. Can’t win em all.
well, again, if thats the mentality it breeds outside of 120v120 combat, then im not surprised why not many people are keeping WM on outside the buff, or if they’re alliance.
it will consume itself, and your explanation is a nice reminder why i should turn off WM the moment any alt hits 111 and never turn it back on.
wpvp in 8.2 new zones wont be comparable because there, everyone is 120, so its “fair”. the only issue then is blizz’s bad balancing, but then again we all know they cant balance a set of scales.
Your existence. I still cant comprehend how a “accident” like you did happend. Maby you can explain us.
How is it called? Post traumatic disorder? awww…i am in tears now…you made me feel guilty for killing thoose newbies in Stormheim.
Regarding this topic i noticed a fact: at least in the last 3 months or so, since 8.1.5 launched, it seems that somehow, the game transfers alliance groups in dominant horde realms (my example is Twisting Nether). When i want to join a group to kill alliance, that realm is almost empty of alliance players. Its like the game tries to protect ally players from horde presence in their realms or something. Its odd. But the most annoying fact is that ally players many times phase out when they are near death (i dont know how they do it) and then after 10-15 sec they pop-up again with full hp.
True wPvPers never run away from a 1 v 1 fight…brings some memories? Right? You are a true wpvp coward. That should be your right description. And please dont start again with : “when i am leader i stay with group, bla bla, no rules, bla bla” . Alone you are 0. Only with group you do something, because you know that alone you are uncapable.
So… you slag off my opinion saying it’s stupid… I lay my opinion out logically for you to critique… I ask you what parts are stupid… and you respond with:
Your existence. I still cant comprehend how a “accident” like you did happend. Maby you can explain us.
One of us is more stupid than the other, that is for sure
Like I said, anything goes in WPvP. Can’t win em all Arkamedix
Thats the problem. Your logic, like your existence, is a accident. Explain us how it was possible?
Where is the logic in 5 ally vs 1 horde? Where is the logic in going a full party go kill a horde player with 30% hp while he fights a elite? Where is the logic to keep WM on just for AOO then disable it? Where is the logic to camp a player with a party and then run like hell when that player brings his friends?
Cant you see that Blizzard encourages “a#shole” behaviour and you with your pathetic alliance comply and do your best to achieve this?
When your brain will understand the concept of “ethics” , “morale” , “honor”, “fairness”, etc…then we can talk. Untill then, any discussion with a coward noob that runs away from a 1 v 1 fight , is useless.
What we have here is, a difference of opinion. That should not be a personal insult to you, yet you seem to take it that way and respond emotionally. I laid out my points very logically. You claimed they were stupid, quote one of my points and state why it is stupid.
PTSD, and i think comparing it to a video game is pretty inappropriate. there are 2 types of wpvp:
unequal lvl combat (lvl 60 vs lvl 100, lvl 101 vs lvl 120)
equal lvl combat (lvl 60 vs lvl 60, lvl 120 vs lvl 120)
option 2 rarely happens outside of 120 v 120. it is option 1 that happens more often than not: 120’s camping legion invasion wq’s, or opposite faction quest hubs in Vanilla - MoP content. there is NO chance that the low level player has a chance to win against a 120. but the buff of 10%-30% is just worth it too much. if you have to dodge idiots or not is a toss of the dice. if you’re lucky, you wont, and you can lvl faster. other times its bad luck you have to put up with them.
people want to have fun playing the game, not have some clown constantly harass them for cheap thrills. most people under 120 most likely have WM on for the perks. nothing more. the chance of “fair” wpvp below 120 is very small and not worth turning on WM for, so its not on for the wpvp. again, its on for the perks. if you have issues with WM once you’re 120? then you have to choose to have it on or not.
and this is why your contribution to the discussion gets us nowhere. as long as you think one faction is being favored over another, nothing will be fixed. i have played as both horde and alliance, and i see the same thing happening on both sides.
both factions have idiot gankers.
both factions have large groups chasing tiny groups or players on their own.
both factions face phasing issues periodically.
both factions have times where you’re basically on your own against an army.
something is wrong with the tech being used. it is not ready in its current state, and to say its purposely favoring one faction or the other shows that you have not played both factions to know the truth.
while maybe there may be a great conspiracy to protect alliance (or horde), it would have to be so minuscule to not be noticed by anyone other than the people who programmed in that protection.
eg. for every 100 alliance players about to be killed in wpvp, only 98 will get killed, and the the other 2 will get phased to safety, whereas for every 100 horde players about to be killed in wpvp, all 100 will get killed.
We could in this ‘what is wpvp’ debate boil it very very simple down.
Pvp in it self is player vs player - it doesn’t explain how many vs how many, where it should be or the rules that applies to it.
Battle grounds are little sports arenas, here there is an objective and death for the opsing team is an outcome if they want to win ot have the upper hand.
You lvl determinds who you will battle against.
Arenas are a pure and simple death match
World Player Vs Player is as the name say it - players vs players in the world. In the world we have different objectives like in the battle grounds, the difference is the lvl difference between players.
Since we can return to previous places, we can also battle against any players at those objectives.
The rules at these objectives are often simple “kill a number of x” or “make the flag change colour” - something like that.
If another player is flagged they can intervene, if not they can stay and watch without being a problem to the flagged.
And then we have War Mode - War Mode is the new pvp-servers.
War Mode is Player Vs Player all the time, no objectives to take and no rules regarding the lvl you have, the lvl the opponent have or the number you or they are against.
Now we can talk about the subject that seem to be what fills the pvp forum the most:
What to do, when you find yourself in a situation where people wants to pvp and you dont - but you are both flagged!
A couple of days ago someone in the pvp section was angry that hordes keeps entering Goldshire and no one does anything.
Other people are angry that they get attacked when they pick flowers, because “they didn’t do anything”
Or why doesn’t horde/alliance want to 1V1.
One even demanded 1V1 and a dishonour system if you entervened, and still claimed 5V1 was true Wpvp, because of old Vanilla videos.
I will be so bold to claim this:
“There is no true way to pvp”
The difference is the stages these incidents happen at.
When I did BG’s I always protected the objective, that meaned I rarely was at the front to a huge annoyance to the rest of my team.
I go flamed, but I was the last stance when they got wiped and was (imo) really good at defending <- I think that is pvp, but often half f the team didn’t.
When I have WM on, I attack everyone regardles of their lvl or gear.
I am pretty when I play so I myself don’t care anyway.
One on the pvp forum didn’t wanted to play against people who was even worse them him, badly geared and below lvl <- that is pvp to him, but it sucks to be me, because that means he won’t fight against me.
And then we have those who wants 1V1… Because of what?
The same honour code their chars are under?
No, because it is more fun to defend yourself against one, than two - we all know that.
But this subject often get camuflaged behind “X faction has no honour and are cowards and can’t fight alone”
But you don’t fight alone in BG’s or Arenas, and in WPvP you often ask for help, just in case someone from the other faction is lurking around.
When I was at the lvl on my human that made me enter Redrigde, I ended up in the familiar situation Graveyard Ganking by a lvl 120
Pretty awesome right
At first I tried to walk around normally “it’s just a phase this poor orc is going through” - it wasn’t, at the time he had placed himself where he could shoot me and newcomers I cried in guild chat “help”… And they did
Free to lvl - and that was pvp too.
I was the looser, lvl 120 was the winner and my guildies was the better ones
I know a lot you on this forum like to draw parallells to wars in the real world, but I am going to be awfullly honest right now:
Even in real life, there is NO honour in a war.
No sides show sportsmanship and no side are gentlemens.
So how to apply this to a game?
You can’t, it doesn’t exist!
It doesn’t mean it is impossible, if everyone agrees to a set of unscripted rules, then they will apply eventually.
Just remember there will allways be one who likes to be provocatiove and break those rules for fun.
As a conclusion for this:
There is no definition for real world pvp or how a real world pvp'er should behave.
You can play with the tool given or try to change the unscripted rules or just leave.
Your wall of text was a good read, very well laid out and 100% logical!
Three different WPvP viewpoints:
Anything goes.
Honor and ethics.
Don’t care.
They are all correct, because WPvP is a system with no limits on PvP behaviour imposed by Blizz. What an individual player considers a behaviour issue just depends on viewpoint.
Me and Arkamedix for example don’t see eye to eye… he’s focused on ethics, I’m focused on anything goes. It’s an unwinable argument, because we are both correct, and why back down. I don’t share his point of view, but I accept that all three of the above viewpoints are WPvP - because they are all possible within no limits.
This debate has been on the go from the start of WoW, and no doubt games before WoW, and will continue as long as there is WPvP without limits. I hope so, because if that was to change, limits on WPvP, we’d lose something great: choice in how we WPvP.
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