World PvP Problems

Neckoe-ahnqiraj · June 7, 2019, 3:28pm

I think that we all can agree on one thing. World PvP never was balanced and never will be. That is not what this thread is about so do not get this topic as me asking for balance. No, not at all.

To begin I really play both sides, and I mean I PLAY both Horde and the Alliance. The amount of time I spend in the open world is I can freely say more then average players as I farm, do all the story quests, do WQs, do the rep stuff etc… and most importantly I keep my WM on and I PvP. After about 10 months of not willing to admit it, from the begging of BFA, now I have to. Alliance, u guys are the biggest trash world PvP can ask for (after the forsaken), and I mean it. While playing Alliance, I am not denying it, I encounter horde raids that do take over Arom’s Stand and stay there for hours slaughtering Alliance players, those guys are marked as disgraces in my book but the problem is… you guys deserve it. I swear I can farm by myself and I will out of no where get a 5 men alliance party that has a “KILL HORDE” quest in their book appear and annihilate me so that they just corpse camp me 25 times until they do that quest or until I log out. Even better are the Alliance players that literally camp flight points. I fly down, I get nuked, nothing I can do about as you know, I do not have stealth on my main so yeh… RIP me for not playing a CERTAIN class.

And no, I am not blaming the player base for 100% of this problem, they do have a large input but WM and sharding that we currently have is ridiculous. Honestly, WM is a good idea. Great idea even. Problem is… IT DOES NOT WORK. And you know why? Because if you are on a PvP server, YOU PVP, if you are on a PvE server, YOU DON’T. EASY AS THAT. I do not hate the idea, but it has more cons then pros. Yes you can get out of PvP when you want to… but that just makes PVP balance and overall game so messed up. The statistics say Horde has more PvP on? Probably. You know why? Cause you gave Alliance a free 400ilvl piece, when they do the quest they simple turn their WM OFF as they do not need to keep it on any more, they got what they needed out of it and why would they expose themselves to horde players. Again, I play both sides and I want to ask, WHY does the horde not get the same opportunity? That would make the world at least a but more even. During these quests, do you know what is the ratio I encountered as Horde in open world, literally 5:1 in Alliance favor! Do you know, excluding Horde raids which are kind of rare now for me at least, the Horde to Alliance ratio is as Alliance? 1:1 or even 1:2. My question is, WHY is sharding so broken? SRSLY, just by quitting my party that I switch to a WHO KNOWS WHICH shard of WHO KNOWS WHICH realm and I end up surrounded by alliance as if Blizzard said “They need something to kill, oh look this guy just quit the party let’s just take him to the server full of Alliance.”

And no, I do not mind dying in game. Hell, sometimes when I mess up I even thing I literally deserve it. I do not mind dying 5 times to a Paladin that is better then me. I really do not. But do you know what is annoying? I never see a 5v5 now in World PvP. I never see the amazing full raid vs full raid as, you know 2 raids cause lag so therefore let us shard them into different servers so one raid can kill all the Alliance that are solo in WM and the other kill all the Horde which are in the WM.

The sharding idea with current community does not work as it quite literally does not make this a Battle For Azeroth between two factions, it makes it a search for the right shard and prey you are lucky between two factions.

Today I got killed 7 times by a 5 men Alliance party and I wanna assume they had a “quest” to complete so they had to corpse camp me until I decided to go on my other character. That literally made me enter one of those famous, Horde raids, and just pound all of the Alliance players to dust. And you know what? IT MADE ME FEEL LIKE ABSOLUTE PIECE OF GARBAGE. You know why? Cause they had absolutely no chance and I can relate to that and cause they are not the responsible ones, as the responsible ones are HIDING in their OWN shard ganking some hordes somewhere in a 5:1 men advantage or they just simply turned their warmodes off as they finished their quests!

Hey. I love this game, I love both factions for different reasons… but one is really taking a lot of advantage over this system Blizzard implanted on the game then the other. PvP should not be optional on PvP realm… everyone should do it and everyone should die and kill once in a while. Sharding should not give advantages to one or the other faction, nor should it allow players to literally dissaper in the middle of the fight at their will or appear as a prey in the middle of the the opposite factions party just cause the game decided to shard them.

I hope this somehow changes later in the expansion, as for the first time in forever, I believe that I will turn off the war mode as both horde and the alliance and play BGs cause… I do not like acting as a lamb that is about to be slaughtered on either side.

Anyway, Thanks guys for reading my long, messy post of complaints.

PS. Kill the Forsaken as they are probably the only ones that really deserve it for what they have been doing for the last decade.

Cheers and I hope all of you have a great day!

Looksmaxxed-kazzak · June 7, 2019, 3:49pm

The way it is handled now satisfies only the bottom of the barrel players who couldn’t achieve nothing on their own and need a raid’s worth of players for a 400 ilvl item.

It doesn’t even deserve the name world PvP as the emphasis for it was given through the story narrative, faction war yadayadayada

There’s no war, there’s just bands of bandits roaming. It’s pathetic.

Also, in before botto…slash that, world pvpers come here and say they don’t experience ppl disappearing when they’re about to die

Moothilda-aszune · June 7, 2019, 4:44pm

Don’t get those emotions, this is also part of pvp - if pvp was perfect, a counter party would come for you for this deed.

Just enjoy you had the upper hand, you never know when it changes.

Good, show them who’s the boss… If they want they will return with friends, or try to attack back… If they are just in WM for xp gain, make them leave.

Sorry for my stupidity, but are you really able to control what shard you are on - more, can you have so much data over player population that you know what shard to avoid?

Someone on the WM forum have made invitations to places where the most gank parties are held… People must use the tools provided

Well, what to do - what to do

They are already dead, so how do we really do that?
We don’t have an exorcist class, so we can’t send them back

Lets hope - I am positive it wil happen
It HAVE to happen

Dejarous-draenor · June 7, 2019, 5:00pm

I glazed over two thirds of the way through the post.

You’re raging about dying, saying you don’t mind it. Saying how good warmode is but it doesn’t work. It’s all very disjointed.

Neckoe-ahnqiraj · June 7, 2019, 5:28pm

You are such a tauren God it’s amazing.

Moothilda-aszune · June 7, 2019, 5:32pm

I don’t think I can deny that - Please tell me it is positive

Eviette-silvermoon · June 8, 2019, 9:46am

I am sorry but i just see this as a whinge post complaining that you got ganked and then turned it into a bashing session against the Alliance player base. You even admitted that the Horde do the same thing but hey thats ok because the Alliance players deserve it? Why? Because we get a quest that you do not?

World PVP has never been balanced and it really shouldnt be. Not everything has to be 50/50 in this game. The Horde do exactly the same in camping flight points, ganking and taking over places arguably more than the Alliance because there are usally more of them. But hey im all fine with that, if you turn WM on you know what to expect.

I just happily killed an Undead Rogue who was questing south of Arom Strand, it was 1v1 and is an example of fair world pvp i would say. But hey if 10 Horde turned up and then gank me, im fine with it. I wait for the cavalry to arrive or logoff and continue levelling my Paladin. Fortunately just more Alliance turned up and the few Horde there fled.

What is it u want to see in world PVP? How it is at the moment is it frustrating you? If its the players, would you like to see some form of penalty for players who gank? Is it just the quest incentive that the Alliance currently gets that annoys you? How do you want it to work?

Explaining that might be better than calling Alliance players ‘the biggest trash in world pvp’. Especially considering they also probably play Horde too. I think only a small number of players play only one faction.

Vaëyn-outland · June 8, 2019, 12:06pm

World of WARcraft WAR Mode

Some players fight dirty,
Some fight because greed,
WPvP was never ‘fair’,
WAR is hell,
Kill em all

War Mode and World PvP

Jashindo-the-shatar · June 8, 2019, 1:41pm

Against Overewhelming Odds should be based on Shard Population. Maybe even area population. And should be available to either Faction when they actually are outnumbered.

Because you cant really be “overwhelmingly outnumbered” if you have 4 other pals ganking the 1 opposing Faction player.

If 9 out of 10 times you find yourself in x+1 vs 1 fights in your favor, then where is the difficulty? Where is the population “problem” then?

War Mode Bonuses should change based on shard. Progress should only be earned on Honorable kills and progress should be lost on Dishonorable kills - so no flight path camping. Rewards should be end of the week based with loot value being dependent on participation!

Punyelf-draenor · June 8, 2019, 4:51pm

Sadly all that would do is create shard hopping for the perks.

Vaëyn-outland · June 8, 2019, 5:00pm

Aoo is for region and one faction because the goal is to have as many balanced shards as possible, requiring a relatively equal region WM faction pop, with excess players on overflow shards - keeping those to a minimum. Aoo per shard or area would not help that goal.

Whatever else players get up to, that’s WPvP. Some are just more cannon fodder than others.

Lynlia-silvermoon · June 8, 2019, 5:00pm

The only thing which I can agree with is the “sharding” issue. Say if you get killed multiple times try to quest,herb,mine and what ever. And when you want to log to a different char or get some friends to “take care of a nuisance”…well good lucky finding him again(aka…get in the “right” shard)).

Jashindo-the-shatar · June 8, 2019, 5:10pm

But that’s the thing though - first off, reduce the number of active shards to prevent too much variety. Then, the mechanic by its own design would push people to risk being attacked to gain the full benefit of the bonus.

Sure, you shard hop somewhere to get the maximum Outnumbered Bonus, but that would require you to actually be near an outnumbering number of Horde players. So there would be a genuine risk/reward scenario.

AOO with perks/rewards based on WPvP rather than PvE would have a better impact. AOO based on shard/area/zone would benefits those who are actually outnumbered. Not theoretically outnumbered. The compensation buffs are currently being abused every time the benefitting side has more players in the shard.

That ain’t health or fair tbh.

In my opinion, that killed WPvP. Its become very hard to see the same people or enjoy experiences as they come on maybe a different character because you accidentally found it on the wrong character first.

Vaëyn-outland · June 8, 2019, 5:23pm

Being outnumbered on a shard/area is usually just an LfG group being present, or player distribution. Not an actual shard imbalance. Not an issue, because there are PvP solutions.

Being outnumbered in region however, creates X number of balanced shards and Y number of single faction overflow shards. Aoo is designed to increase X and decrease Y. It works as intended.

There are drawbacks ofc. Here’s an alternate suggestion.

Jashindo-the-shatar · June 8, 2019, 6:23pm

AOO should still not benefit players of the minority faction when they are in fact the majority within the shard.

Even in shards with balanced population values, the AOO benefiting Faction has the insentive to group up, to wage war. The other faction doesn’t.

The current AOO system is unhealthy because of how it turns one Faction into cattle while trying to push their PvE players out of War Mode, while actively trying to make the otherside’s PvE players join War Mode. WM should just be about PvP rewards…

Môe-argent-dawn · June 8, 2019, 6:29pm

whispers ; Wanna have some steak tonight ?

Cróws-defias-brotherhood · June 9, 2019, 1:09am

I can tell you only play alliance, you have no clue of how it is.

Make that non stop camping and there’s no cavalry that shows up since you are heavily outnumbered. Join lfg and every server will be the same. That’s how it is to play on horde side when that quest is up.

Warmode is just one of those old heavily unbalanced servers, fun part is just that you will never know when game will become unplayable.

Of course extra bonus is when playing on rp servers is that alliance already outnumber horde so they get that quest for free.

Arkamedix-twisting-nether · June 9, 2019, 7:09am

You are perfectly right. I dont understand also the reason, but it seems that there is a difference between alliance players and horde players. It seems that horde players have more “ethics” and “honor” regarding wpvp. What i mean with this?
Here i give a few examples:

I am alone doing world quests in a random location. I see a ally player, i dont atack him, i leave him alone. He does the same. Then another ally player comes and atacks me ,then first ally player starts to atack me also.
I am alone doing wq. I see a lonely ally player. I dont atack him but i go towards him. He starts to run away from me in oposite direction untill he see’s another ally and he waits to see what happens: if the other ally atacks me then he comes back and atacks me also. If the other ally ignores me, then he continue his run.
Groups: i am in a party (horde party) doing a elite wq. We are 3-4 waiting for elite to spawns. A ally player comes near us, alone. We leave him in peace and wait for the elite. Now the oposite situation: a ally party is waiting for a elite. They see me alone, even if the elite spawns, they all jump on me to kill me. Some parties, because of my GoD MoDe (sry, shamans are too OP), chase me the entire map (ex. from Waycrest Manor untill Fletchers Hollow, thats south-east part of the map).
Sneak atacks : i fight a elite rare (thoose with 1,5-2+ mil HP). I am 30-40% hp , then suddently from the back one or two allies atack me and kills me. When i am in the oposite situation, i noticed that majority of horde players let the ally finish the kill and leave him in peace. Especially if that ally is alone.
Cowards: there is a group of 5 ally players killing lonely horde players. Then i make a group, we are 4-5 horde vs 5 allies. If we defeat them, they disband party or run away and dont come for revenge. They quit at the first defeat. Horde players on the other side are persistent. They get defeated? No problem, they ressurect and come back and try again.

…And so on.
The examples gaved above are from my real experience, where i mostly play solo, doing wq, pet battles and invasions. Taking in consideration that i have Paragon rep lvl 35 with Honorbound and around 15 with each one of the others reps, that says a lot of how much world content i did untill now. Its a 6 months experience, since dec 2018, when i turned on WM and never turned it off. I dont say that theese examples applies to all ally players, but my estimation would be that it applies to around 70% of ally players i met untill now (and i met a lot).
I noticed that horde players can make a difference when to play wpvp and when not. I know that Vaeyn will come and say : “this is wpvp, there are no rules” , but there are. There is a ethic code that majority of horde players respect it. Maby it is because of the horde storyline, where honor is praised as a virtue, i dont know. I dont deny that in the horde there are also some scums. But the ratio of scums between horde and alliance is around 10-3 in my opinion. But the alliance players are like little kids: its funny when they do kills in avantageous situations (2 vs 1 or groups v1) and run away when the odds are against them.
I dont get where is the fun or joy to atack a players that has 30% hp fighting a elite. For what? For 5 honor points?

Moothilda-aszune · June 9, 2019, 7:28am

Is it really impossible to make a post without writing about him (and the other you always write about)…

We get it, you hate him, but you know the most common way to deal with this hate is mind block them ignore them, no you don’t have to press a button, just ignore them!

Nope, just for pure annoyance.

I know a player who enjoys killing elites in front of the group who is trying to get it down, so the opposite faction won’t get the loot - just because he likes to be a pain.

Nothing to do with WM, but the personality behind the screen.

Duzurîx-burning-blade · June 9, 2019, 7:40am

hmm somethings not quite right there …so u just admit that horde is doing exactly the same. U just admit even tho u said " i dont mind dying" that u got so tilted that u joined premade and went to corpsefarm aliance players, in heavy number advantage without a reason because they were different player than those who camped you…just …to…idk…anoy them. Then u said all this is caused because of overwhelming odds quest and instead of remowing it from the game u wannt it for the horde aswell, which wouldnt fix or solve anything, ot would be even worse but on the other side…and u know it because horde have more players with wm on and thats what even u admited in your post.

Well thats exactly what this post is. Whining about unbalanced shards from a clearly horde player. And no i dont thing u play both factions evenly, posting on your underleveled aliance alt and making statements like " i play both factions trust me" wouldnt make it more beliveable. Because for example on my realm ali gets strongly outnumbered by horde no matter what quest is up or not.

Also wtf ive just read.
You guys on horde side should stop RPing and get a bit over yourself. At the end of the day we all are just a players. It is the exact same sh!it on the other side. Try it and u will see.