For the purposes of an academic exercise, I would like to gauge interest in the idea of Garrosh returning to be Warchief again. Do people want him back? Is he truly better than Sylvanas even at his worst? And how would people react if Exarch Hellscream became Warchief?
The bar has been set very very very very…(n+1)(very) low…you get the idea.
He waged one of the most intelligent wars on the Kaldorei, which truly ran down, their fighting style and they were made sitting ducks in their own lands. He also had reasons to start the war with them, as well. Not like Sylvanas and Saurfang.
And he saw a actual issue with living in a dessert which thrall dint. Sure repentio n thing he wanted for orcs but was not only orcs anymore and people still need resources to live. And able to farm to sustain people which dessrt doesnt have.
Byrok did not need to fish, of course. Durotar included some excellent farmland. Since the human lands were located in the marshy territory to the south, humans could not grow crops, and so turned most of their energy to fishing. They would trade their surplus to the orcs in exchange for their surplus crops.
– Cycle of Hatred (2006)
But before someone takes it as if I think Durotar is super fertile: The quote above has really been retconned, in The Shattering at the latest.
“It is true that this land of Durotar, the new homeland of the orcs, is a harsh place. But that is nothing new. It has always been a difficult environment in which to dwell. But we are orcs, and this land suits us. It suits us because it is so harsh, because it is brutal, because few beings other than orcs could wrest a living from it. We came to this world from Draenor, after warlock magics had rendered most of it lifeless. And we could have done the same to this one. When I rebuilt the Horde, I might indeed have taken a more fertile land. But I did not.”
Murmurs rippled throughout the hall. Cairne looked at him with narrowed eyes, no doubt wondering why Thrall was choosing to remind his people that Durotar was a difficult land at best. He nodded almost imperceptibly to his old friend, reassuring him that he knew what he was doing.
“I did not, because we had wronged this world. And yet, we were here in it, we had a right to live. To find a homeland. I chose a place that we could make our own—a land that asked
of us all we could give. Living here has done much to cleanse us of the curse that so damaged us as a people. It has made us even stronger, hardier—more orclike than living in a soft
land ever would.”
But you can read it as another cynical comment on how worthless lore is that changes with the needs of the story. Yeah, Durotar is a horrible desert, yadda yadaa. But was it as horrible in the minds of Blizzard when they thought about it 15 or 10 years ago? Who knows.
I dont know why blizz ever thought a dessert would have excelent Farmland, need water aswell for Farmland which dessert for most part doesnt have. But the
Atleast the retcon there makes more sense for how the land is.
My opinion, to have Sylvanas as Warchief and looking at everything she did on BfA, my question is:
Why did they remove Garrosh exactly ?
So Sylvanas can do the same ?
So another do the same after Sylvanas ?
They should had writen Garrosh as the mean Warchief of the Horde, without entering in conflict with the remaining, race leaders, for the next expansions and let him have all the conflicts players complain they never have in WARcraft with Varian.
Till death brakes them apart.
Now Horde is chaotic, Alliance is lawful end of useless discussions and hippocrisy.
I took this from US forums:
"I’d argue with you, but Blizzard has explicitly made the Horde evil scum in BFA they want all players to hate. They have even retconned in all kinds of absurd things like Sylvanas planning the Wrathgate.
I wonder why they are losing subs? So odd."
To be honest, I am a really oldschool wc3 guy, so for me, horde means orcs, trolls and taurens. Garrosh is kind of crazy, but I think it would be a little better. He was actually smart, not just a stupid, fan favorite undead mary sue.
I couldn’t care less who is the warchief, but it’s just pissing me off how the horde was hijacked by the forsaken.
Why do some people insist that killing Sylvanas would have doomed the world? The Horde did literally NOTHING of importance in Legion. It was the neutral champions who closed the breach, and it was the Alliance who kindly donated the Vindicaar. What did Sylvanas even do to stop the Legion?
The OP in that thread already put an end to the debate anyway. Even if Sylvanas tried to pin the blame on Greymane by citing Stormheim, Greymane could just use the alibi that he found out about Sylvanas’ nefarious plans in Azsuna.
Before them, people had the impression that Orcs were the ones that hijacked the factions drive. And not the usual, and extended approach people knew of past stories, but a very specific branch of said mindset.
No race should be allowed to do that. Certainly not Forsaken, but that goes for orcs too.
You are right of course.
But to be honest, I don’t really mind when one race determines what a faction’s like.
But forsaken? We literally had an entire expansion fighting the same stuff sylvanas is doing right now. It’s just annoys me.
Cataclysm Garrosh had potential. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again- this is an orc who saw his people starving, many homeless and took measures that he deemed necessary to secure their place in the world. He lacks any and all experience with the Night Elves, so of course it seemed utterly rediculous to him that they wouldn’t let his people harvest lumber. Why the hell not?!
But this is the same Warchief who knew when to draw a line. When Krom’gar bombed a school - filled with young innocent druids who were no threat - Garrosh lost his rag and threw him off a cliff. Hell, he nearly threw you the player off the same cliff until a Tauren interceded and said you tried to prevent the atrocity. “Honor, Krom’gar, no matter how dire the battle… never forsake it.”
He had room to grow and become an amazing Warchief. Instead he did a complete 180 and dropped a far more powerful bomb on an entire city, massacring all inside. And then decided orcs were the genetically superior race and all others had to die… Yeesh.
But people dont like it all, and writers dont coordinate and they then villain batted him.
Or maybe they dont like people liked him as leader and wanted people to hate him and thats why was villain batted.
Ummm. This was, by his own admission, Alex Afrasiabi going off message…
Garrosh was never a good guy, he could not even wait for Thrall to leave the room before kicking off on Vol’jin for no reason.
Garrosh was awful as Warchief. He could have been an amazing Orc racial Leader, but as a Warchief, utter garbage. He deserved a medal from the Alliance for doing more to destroy the Horde than they ever did…