keys with the one and only god gamer and trendsetter
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But I’m sure you’ve had the moment in WoW where you’ve felt like a hero.
A lot of players have had that moment, whether it was when they killed Ragnaros or The Lich King first time and everyone in their guild screamed out loud. Or the first time they crossed 2400 rating in PvP, or something similar. And then there’s the period afterward where you’re just chilling in Stormwind or Orgrimmar and basking in all your glory and the feel-good moment of your accomplishment and the reward you have to show for it.
That’s WoW at its best.
And Blizzard desperately wants everyone to have that moment, because the feeling that comes with it is the feeling that hooks you on this game, because it’s an awesome human experience.
But it’s not so easy to get that moment, because just like Stan, Kyle, Cartman, and Kenny in South Park, then it takes a lot of time and effort, and in many ways the accomplishment is the result of all that time and effort – all the blood, sweat and tears you’ve poured into something.
But not all players are able to devote themselves to the game to such an extent that they can get the awesome moment of getting the server first Mythic Fyrakk kill with their guild. And some are just not good enough players.
So what Blizzard have increasingly done, is to sell those players the illusion of the same for money.
You’re not good enough or can’t devote yourself enough to get Cutting Edge? Don’t worry, you can just buy some WoW Tokens and use the gold for a boost!
So whereas WoW was a game that gave players the ultimate fantasy by striving for the hero moment, now Blizzard offers players to buy the illusion of the same.
That’s a shame.
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For sure I would categorize the current P2W as “soft” acccording to the rigorous dictionary definition; younger generations who are more used to battle passes and play-to-pay etc would take to the “hard” P2W more easily, even in a game like WoW.
Owing to your question I have another thing I would like to comment on: at least to me it is not a shameful thing to buy a wow token. It is 2024. You are not a lesser player or let alone a lesser human being if you buy a mythic raid boost or fill your weekly vault. I have done it a few times myself.
For some reason it feels like a few people think that if they agreed with the initial statement then it would cast them under shame or ridicule, so in order to avoid feeling bad about themselves they refuse to entertain the fact that P2W in a game like WoW must be understood in a context-specific manner.
Bewildering times, but I would be lying to myself if, back in WoD, when the token was 15k, I did not see this coming. The token is part and parcel of WoW now.
And that’s a tragedy. In an MMORPG you should care. You should care about your fellow players.
But you don’t.
Not much of an MMORPG experience you’re having anymore, is it?
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But they will never have that feeling of accomplishment as those that managed it properly do.
Maybe not. But it’s the striving for the goal that makes the game work at its best.
When you really want that final boss kill in the raid, then every step along the way becomes meaningful.
But when you can just buy that boss kill, then everything prior to it is pointless.
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No. They’re there for me to be able to complete dungeons and raids and not much else.
Mainly they’re just in the way. 
Thankfully. I would hate it if I was dependent on others to play this game.
Don’t get me wrong though: I like seeing others around in the world (unless we’re competing for the same mobs/recources). It makes the world more alive. But I’m not in this game to make friends or be social or any of that.
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The child does have to be a minor. I can’t let my adult child play on mine 
Some of the best friends I’ve ever had I’ve made in WoW. In the old days of WoW.
Awesome. Nice to hear.
I have made exactly zero friends in all my years.
Plenty of people I know and am friendly with (or was - virtually all of them have moved on from WoW), but I wouldn’t call any of them friends.
I care about the people i play with, those i consider friends. Those i care about. And i have made many friends in wow. But i dont care what mounts, titles, achievments or transmogs people have or how they got them. Why would i? I care when my friends are ill, when they go through something tough in real life, when they squeel of happiness cause they see murlocs, when they are happy for achieving their goals in the game. Those are the people that matters. As they did in TBC. Random joe doesnt matter, didnt back then, doesnt now.
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This does not change the fact that paying still give me an advantage, by saving my own time.
The fact that you dont care is irrelevant to the point of the discussion.
Idc either if pepole gold, boost or whatever but the fact that is an advantage is not up to debate.
Unless you want to argue that someone able to buy in 10second the same gold you farm in a month just by paying isnt giving then an advantage.
And no, not over you. Advatage isnt specific to “over others”, advantage can simply mean “benefit” since you all like to play over grammar.
And again, i dont care either if people do. But is obviously p2w element.
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You’re mixing things a bit here, I think.
I made the point about my Tier 3 armor and how you can’t see if I’ve earned it or bought it, and how WoW has therefore lost its visual identification.
Tah said he didn’t care.
My point is that you should care. You should care because that visual identification is the means by which you would traditionally identify players in an MMORPG. Because what they looked like was a reflection of what they had accomplished. It said something about who they were as players.
That’s also why Blizzard themselves were reluctant to introduce transmogrification in the first place. Lead Content Designer Cory Stockton said that at the time, that they were afraid what it would mean for the visual communication of the game, and it’s why they’ve been strict with restrictions over the years. Because just letting it rip (which they now are) destroys this aspect of the game, which is traditionally a part of the DNA of an MMORPG.
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It is relevant since when i would do what you do i would destroy my own fun in the game. Which is why i disagree you get an advantage as stated as fact for everyone who does this. You get an advantage for yourself for the way you play. Completely subjective. I would Pay to Lose.
Nobody cares about that except you.
The advantage has to be IN REGARD TO other players in the game.
Actually it is up for debate. Because it’s meaningless. It’s a lie. It’s cheating.
And they’ll be found out, one way or another if their goal is to deceive.
That’s not winning. That’s being a person of low mortal standards.
In the case of P2W, yes it is. That’s the whole point.
To qualify as P2W that ‘over others’ is one of THE main points.
Another important point being that they can’t get that same ‘thing’ by just playing and only by paying.
Objectively it isn’t.
Subjectively, it can be, sure.
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And my point was that i didnt look at others in awe back then, and i wouldnt do it now. Even if we didnt have transmogs or tokens. What other strangers accomplish in this game doesnt matter to me. I dont go and idolise world first raiders. Yes they are awesome at the game, but it doesnt matter to me. I wouldnt even know what the armour and mount and title they would be wearing is from 
I get that it matters alot to you, and that you find it sad that it doesnt matter for alot of others. Its fine, its just different opinions of whats important in the game.
Please help me understand :
And what has changed from pre-token era to post-token era?
Why do tokens suddenly change the narrative? Because I could buy gold before tokens too you know?
So what are you implying? That WoW has always been P2W? Followup question : Are you implying that any MMO ever developed now and in the future will also be P2W?
And second question : I fail to see how ingame cosmetics can be bought with gold. Some can.
Help me understand how gold can help you acquire Alatar from Tempest keep. Or the ICC lich king mount. To name a few.
False.
Gameplay >>> ALL. You can have all the social hierarchy you want. But being 1-shot in PvP never feels good.
It even has a name : Ganking.
And I can give you a recent example : The frogs from MoP. This is what happens when there is such a disparity in player power. And it was not even boosting or gold related. Just a blizz problem.
Yup. Gold is key.
But what exactly are you buying with tokens? Time?
OK. I give you 10M gold right now and a fresh 70.
You do all that.
And then what? What is the difference between you and someone that did spend months with 19 apes?
A mount? OK.
That is not P2W.
This is P2W : You buy tokens. With 10M gold you get a super duper special set of gear that allows you to solo the Mythic Raid bosses.
And the one that does not pay, has to spend months with 19 apes.
That is P2W.
What would happen if they allowed that? Same thing as in MoP with froggers. If you dont have that armour, you don’t get to raid at all. That is why gameplay >> ALL.
I can tell you what P2W in terms of cosmetics is : The trade post tenders.
If you could buy with money more tenders, that would be P2W. Because a person just playing the game will NEVER manage to get enough tenders to buy everything on stock. But a person that spends $$ will.
THAT is P2W.
However. Its not the case. So its not P2W.
Exactly. There is no amount of money you can pay blizzard to get an MoP Remix char with its cloak to retail. Because that would be super disruptive to the game.
And as you point out, my OP toon that can solo Garrosh will turn into a weakling in Retail. They want to make so sure that will never happen that he wont even get 522 gear… 415 gear, barely enough to begin WW with out being 1-shot by Durotar boars.
Again, you are arguing over semantics.
The benefit would still be there even for you. Pretending to say that having 400k extra in 10second isnt a benefit is stupid.
The fact that for the way you play, you prefer to actually play the game because you enjoy it and prefer to farm 400 yourself is completely valid.
But it does not remove the fact that if you woke up tomorrow with 400k more you be like “oh dang nice”.
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And I disagree with that. You can’t force people to care.
That hasn’t been true for more years than it has been true.
And even then… 40 man raids were pretty meaningless in terms of your personal achievement. Sure, if you topped the DPS charts or something, but those accolades don’t go along with your ‘visual identification’. You could have died on the boss in minute 1 of the fight for all we know.
Traditionally, but sometimes old stuff just gets old and no longer has a place in modern day and age.
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Might be my perception of 400k is just 1 month of enjoying weekend morning with coffee. One of the reasons i am also sitting on like 8-9M gold without purpose. That “oh dang nice” would not happen. I do not even know how much i actually have