Says 24220 points, but I suppose it’s the points achieved by this specific character and does not include ones completed on alts (I think there’s an option somewhere for that).
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Yes but the value of those is very subjective (and yes through put is aswell). Some people, even mount collectors, will not feel at a disadvantage if Billy has one more mount than them. And on the other hand there will be people that will not care that Timmy deals 10% more dmg than them because he bough a boost a got lucky with his vault. Also if you need to buy a boost, and for the sake of argument lets say you get the legendary axe from it, you are not out dps-ing the people who are clearing the content on their own even with it.
Overall I would say that aside from PvP, it’s very difficult to prove if someone has an advantage over you because they spend money to buy something.
Even conveniences/time savers are cannot be proven as an advantage or “win”. Like I said above, you buy a boost and you are a social pariah in LFG, you are actively buying a disadvantage when it comes to getting invites. Who are you inviting between two exact warrior, the one that has done over 15 +10 keys or the one that has done exactly 8 +10 keys?
In WoW , in order to to feel at a disadvantage you need to care what other people have, I don’t, I care about what I have.
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We then return to what some other poster said some hundreds of posts above: If buying a convenience does not guarantee an objective result despite any numerical advantage, or if the advantage is not accepted by everyone as important / winning, then no game can ever be P2W. If I pay whatever € to get superpowerful in any game and then just stopped playing entirely, I paid but didn’t win. I never became top of any leaderboard. I never saw the Good Ending and the ending credits, therefore the game was not P2W. That’s obviously a fallacy.
P2W does not mean that absolutely every single case of “paying” should guarantee a definite and irreducible “win”. P2W means there is a chance, no matter how minute, that paying extra can lead to winning. I’ll bring Rift’s example here: Rift had raid gear behind paywall. You could directly buy it from their shop. But if you did that, it was not guaranteed that you’d still perform adequately in raids and see all the bosses. WoW is adding 2 middlemen in this:
- 1st is the token->gold exchange: I get gold, but I can choose what I do with that. I may not even spend it on gear or a boost, I may just use it on a cosmetic or keep it just to have 7 digits on my bank account.
- 2nd middleman is the gold->gear-from-boost. I can opt to use the gold I earned from the 1st middleman to pay someone in-game to boost me and therefore allow me to get gear. And then the gear I acquire through this will help me in my future endeavors pretty much the same as if I directly purchased it from the shop.
The argument that those of us on the “WoW is P2W” camp use is that this path exists where I pay, I get gold, I use the gold for a boost, I use the boost to acquire gear I shouldn’t acquire based on my skill or my time-restraints. Leaving the 2 middlemen outside, it’s the same thing as what other games do.
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That isn’t true though. You can most certainly see this with mobile games and games where PvP is the focus, those games also sell cosmetics but their players refer to the item shops as P2W.
They do, but again I reiterate that you can pay to gain an unfair advantage and still lose! It’s not P2W if every case of paying leads to winning, it’s P2W if there’s any chance, even 0.0000000001% that paying can lead to winning.
Okay but if player A is more skilled he will go further regardless of who paid
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Depends on your definition of P2W. Mine is that the advantage not only needs to exist but it has to be unfair, meaning that the only way is spend money, for example if the only way to get an ilvl 550 item is to spend IRL money then that would be P2W according to me, using a shortcut to acquire 535 item (and again if you need help getting that, then you are clearly not out performing the people that got it the legit way) that can be acquired by regular play, then I do not consider that P2W.
Not only will he go further, but he will have more opportunities to go further (aka invites/sign ups).
Time is the limitation.
If player A and player B both play for 10 hours per week, then you can get way more done in 10 hours by spending your credit card than by being skilled.
Being skilled does definitely allow you to clear content faster and get into good groups.
But nothing goes faster than a paid boost.
No skilled player can get to Heroic Fyrakk faster than my credit card.
No skilled player can level their professions faster than me with my credit card.
No skilled player can reach level 70 on a new character faster than I can buy a level boost on the Online Store.
Do you even understand how the new proff system works? because it does not look like it.
its already been killed many times by others so they are not winning anything.
only able to buy late into the expac so moot.
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And what exactly do you need 10h to get done? A raid takes up like what 1-3h to clear?
So player A decides to go a full clear and has the skill to back it up, he spends lets say 2h clearing it.
Player B decides to buy a boost, he contacts the booster and the booster says “100k gold, next run is in 30 mins”,
Both groups needs ~10mins to kill the final boss.
Great Player B has saved 1h and 20 mins.
I think they meant a completely naked / fresh 70. Even then it’s getting something faster but not something someone else can’t get.
You’re moving the goal post.
I simply responded to the notion that skill trumps a credit card assuming all other factors are equal.
And that’s not true.
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That doesn’t really matter. Ok you are getting your AtoC, then what? You aren’t getting invited again unless you spend more money.
How so, you can’t buy knowledge point with a credit card. Getting 100 in a skill means absolutely nothing if you do not improve your specializations.
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I guess any content I did with Fail Train or Scared of Dungeons would have me taken out and shot in Tah’s world.
Our old friends and family guild used to do sunday evenings in dungeons or raids whatever we could get enough players for.
Often more than one of us would be drunk, there were Leeroy Jenkins moments and other poorly performed gameplay.
I guess we’re all guilty of boosting these players too.
you mentioned proffs and now you do not like it , when somebody challenge’s you.
People with skill need to do the content first before they can boost you. When you buy that boost you are behind the skilled players anyway.
About professions; no idea how you get your knowledge and skill points up with a credit card. But you probably know professions better than me.
Excactly , you need knowledge and renowned and time gated to boot 
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In Tah’s world she would be right there next to you. I am not saying she isn’t trying but I have seen her LFR logs. And this not meant as insult, it’s meant as a highlight that you cannot start banning boosters, because you cannot prove who a booster is.
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Imagine the GM looking through the logs and reading.
“I’d love to come help you complete AotC but I have to wait here and watch my AH entries, I can’t leave until this rock I’ve put on for 125,000g sells Just in case someone undercuts me.”