yes.
Can also go back to older videos of people like Venruki discussing the whole PVP gear grind an why it mattered. Thanks
I’m actually not. I am taking the examples you give and applying them to WoW… This whole discussion is about semantics… You even say it yourself:
So why are you now surprised that the discussion is about semantics? xD
Yet I made it to 1800 to get the set on my druid wearing green pvp gear against fully geared conquest players.
I see thanks! Did not know!
yaaaaaawwnnnnnn you’re back again with that discussion style… Come back later mate
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How about you stop thinking having better gear means you win by default? You need to actually know what you’re doing in addition to having the gear.
I am not surprised it is about semantics. But it is a bit strange someone who claims WoW is P2W claims the other games which are clear P2W are not. While those games even have win-conditions.
Again… You’re really boring me with all your “I, I, I, I”…
Elevate yourself a bit and drop the whole jumping in and out of discussions every time you have no answer… You’re boring
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Wow is p2w in some degree (if we look away from the word win) but far from as bad as other games. And i get why free to play games rely more on moneygrabs, something has to pay the creators and so on.
Many years ago i played a mobile game called the hobbit. There you got also insane stuff by paying, things you could never get by just playing for free. And there were weekly leaderboards (those are also in roblox games), and u would never be over the paying players on the leaderboards.
What? When did I claim they are not?
I took YOUR definition and said then they must according to YOU not be P2W? xD
For me there is a LOT of P2W games out there… From your definition only the 2 games Sinaaki mentioned so far is P2W
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Stop pretending that gear makes you win then.
This is the overall DPS of an ilvl 525 balance druid when the tank left a key because his dps was so low:
Do you realize how absurdly low that is? He has the gear but he has absolutely no clue how to play. How is he winning anything?
I never claimed WoW was the worst, or no other game wasn’t…
For me WoW is a P2W, because you get way more advantages paying than players who don’t… Just like a lot of other games.
Raid Shadow Legends for example… Of course you can in time get to the top playing for free, but realistically, with the amount of new features, champions, levels, etc. someone who pays will be better than you.
To be fair, roblox is just the platform, there’s god knows how many games within roblox and alot of them have p2w mechanics. Which means i have kids that daily asks if they can get robux 
Yeah and i have agreed wow has p2w elements, cause u can buy stuff with swiping your card. I just have issue with the win word, cause u can swipe and buy as much as u want and still not be able to get anywhere if u try it yourself.
I don’t know the game, so can’t argue against it xD
But for me, the discussion has become a “I can still perform better than George who bought a boost, therefor P2W does not exists!!”
But in mobile games, almost everyone would agree they are P2W, not because you get something unoptainable, but because the game is so dragging and “impossible” without the quality of life…
The scenario is the same, WoW just isn’t as dull and therefor the progression is more “fluid” than the “Oh no… out of energy… Wait 20 hours!.. or… Spent 1 dollar on 15000 energy!”
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You don’t.
It’s the equivalent of buying a game and handing over the controller to someone else to play the game for you and then when you’re gonna play it yourself after the other one has made your character stronger, you fail so hard that people won’t play with you, because you don’t actually know how to play the game.
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That for me, depends how you understand the word… For me “Win” is being effective. For the love of me, I can’t think of anything more dull than having to farm gold…
I work 10-11 hours a day 5 days a week, and then I should go home and mine ores to play the game? Nah… Much rather just spent on a token and go on with my day…
So in my head, I am “winning” against someone, who sits and farms because he otherwise can’t afford pots, enchants etc.
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This has been talked about in the thread. Winning in an MMO has to be taken figuratively like in the saying “money helps you win in life”. You set your own goals in WoW and gold can help you achieve all of them
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