I have read and taken part of the entire thread so im aware. I dont agree that everything can be done with gold though. Not in a legal way at least. As an example, i would really love to have the Taivan mount. Its a super nice mount. Can i throw tokens at someone and get it? No i cant. If i want it i will have to work for it. So for me, i will never get that mount and thats fine.
In my head, you’re just dumb for doing that.
I’ve made a surplus of over 4 million gold since DF started, not even actively trying to make gold and I’ve attempted up to +27 in m+, I don’t need to buy a token. I just check the crafting orders once or twice a day, craft whatever gives a high enough fee or can proc high value mats, such as dracothysts and that’s it. Then done the weekly quests for sparks and so on.
You could pay someone and just tag along 
But that means you have invested time and effort into your professions. I havent. And i only log on to do m+ twice a week. So i bought one token during DF to just cover my expenses for consumables and enchants cause i cba doing workd quests and so on. A token cost the same as i earn in less then an hour at work so id rather just buy it then spending time grinding to get my professions up.
Exactly my point… But talking to Elahra is talking to a door… Cus regardless of what you say he/she will tell you they can do it faster, easier, better and at a higher level than you without having to buy anything with their credit card… And of course, therefor that logic applies universally to the entire game xD
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I wouldn’t call doing 2 weekly profession quests much effort. I get the crafting order quest, I get the one at the profession NPC and that’s it. It took a long time to get my profession knowledge maxed out because I only did this but I didn’t need it to be maxed out to start profiting from craft orders.
I haven’t farmed any knowledge points in the world like others did.
And thats fine, i know elahra can do anything better and faster then me. Doesnt change the fact that i can skip doing it to do the content i enjoy. So p2w elements. Not full blown p2w, but u can for sure pay to skip stuff. And ppl can think thats stupid of us, i dont care. I can save some time by buying a token and joe over there with no job can play for free cause they have all the time in the world to invest in wow. Win win.
Does not matter what you think in this case, the point being made is that one (avoiding the use of “you” on purpose) can swipe their credit card and gain an advantage, effectively saving them time to do something else, while most likely also getting them closer to their in-game goals.
It is not about what you and I think, it is about the option in the game that lets you save time and reach your goals faster.
What advantage?
The advantage to do this:
And then have people leave your key because you’re doing no DPS?
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Achieving whatever goals they might have.
Just like in real life money can get you anything you want.
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???
How is that an advantage against others?
“Oh hey, I achieved my goals by letting others play for me and stopped playing, I has advantage against others because I don’t play any more”
Like, makes no sense.
Exactly! Actually like your patience and argumentation. So kudos for that! And I will say, I am swayed to agreeing with you fully on your view of it (The whole P2W thing)
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it is really difficult when i gave my definition for P2W for wow and then put it on games with a diffferent genre, which do not even have gear or ilvl. Then you need to get the pay-advantage in other ways. When the game is about getting resources and you need to build your city with resources and an army with resources then 25% more resources is obviously something only optainable by paying.
Especially when a city has a maxiumum of resources production. But you can buy 25% extra with money. Something you can not get without paying. And then you buy another 25% army on top of it, which you can not get without paying.
Hard to compare when a game does not have ilvl. But you can not buy extra ilvl in warcraft. That is the big difference. Every ilvl you can ‘buy’ in wow is very fast optianable by just playing.
I am not contradicting myself. You just try hard to disagree for disagreeing.
Starting a reply with question marks usually signal arguing in bad faith for me, but here goes:
Why did you add “against”? It is an immense game and people play for different reasons and have different goals. A credit card gives them an advantage in achieving them.
Even in your example where people leave a party that has a boosted player, a credit card helped that boosted player. Perhaps he does not even need anything anymore and by accident started to like balance druid. Who knows? But the point remains, there is an option to buy boosts and jump straight into high keys.
Maybe you understand it better if you replace that low DPS picture with a super high DPS picture. Just someone that knows how to play well and also has a fat credit card.
The point is that in WoW you can pay for everything you want. Does it mean you can get Rank 1? No, but you can tremendously hasten the process and get to a very high ranking very fast just by swiping.
So let us swipe away.
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From what I see online from 5 years ago, the only thing Trivian gives you is:
“%25 boost to all of your resource generation and instant building is huge advantage”
But:
“you cant train soldiers faster with gold it means nothing”
I haven’t played the game, so I can’t say. But your sentiment in the two other games was resource gain.
So no, I am not trying hard to disagree, but you mentioned 3 games and you’ve completely left out the 2 others? Why? Do you now not see them as P2W?
If the case with the first game is what you say, fine. That is a P2W game.
But that leaves the two others
Why would I not?
You’re not playing against other players in PvE. You’re playing with them and people who aren’t getting paid are unlikely to put up with someone that’s doing less DPS than the healer when their gear levels should have them doing at least 300k dps, with the pulls done, with minimal effort to learn the class.
In PvP you’re definitely not going to have an advantage if you pay for boosts, you’ll just lose endlessly once you stop playing with the boosters,
Why would someone that knows how to play well pay for it when they can obtain it for free?
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Ofc you do, but have you actually tried playing instead of paying though?
But you cant Buy Mythic raid gear, you can only buy the CHANCE to get the Mythic raid gear you want.
You could buy 10 Mythic raid clears but if that item doesnt drop in the raid you dont get it.
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Yes… You could also play the game naturally and not get any gear for the entire expansion?..
Like come on, you understood the sentiment, and what if I have so much money that I just keep paying until I get fully geared?
Talking in extreme outliers just derails the overall conversation… I could turn it around and say my first run, everything I needed dropped. Aha now we are at a crossroad in the discussion
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So then if you pay you may not win right? So is it really pay to win? or is it as many people have stated Pay to Skip?