yeh make premade vs premade games, pug vs premade is like easy mode.
100% sure horde tears will come after wednesday horde pugs will get farmed over and over again at gy 10x
Are you talking about ranking MAFIA?
That is true yes. In games and in RL there are always ppl that feels entitled and that is annoying and in a way " loser mindset" in general for everything in life which is inevitable to not happening in a game.
Me as someone who love pvp ,but does not have the same time like in vanilla would love to see 40 premades officially allowed and also full 10/10 and 15/15 for AB, BUT they should exclusively meet one another. Restrictions would be " u cant queue for specific bg as a premade unless full number of players in the party 10 for wsg 40 for AV and 15 for Ab, resulting in no pug stomping bads that self called a good pvpers after getting their ranks Aka " high pug stomper" or " grand cave afker "
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Except this kind of limitation has never worked in WoW.
Ever.
I dont think they ever really tried.
Completely agree.
Dude chill. The guy made really good point and pointed out ongoing problem.
It’s happening not only in WSG but AV too. There’re scouts for premades and that’s just avoidance of other premades. That’s the reason Moba games doesn’t show pictures and stuff when you queue ranked games so you won’t be able to decline queue in order to avoid known good players.
They have. In burning crusade a patch came that made it harder to do the premade trickery like you’ve seen thus far in classic, but even that was ineffective in the end.
Later on, battlegroups were removed and region locks were (kind of) removed, and yet again you’d see the same tricks being used to bypass the 5-man limitation that was put into effect for every single bg.
It hasn’t changed since. It’s just that more and more of these premades grew tired of it due to a trivialization of the incentives to do it, so not as many are left.
It has never worked to arbitrarily limit premades into a segregated queue. Because there are always premades that will opt to get around the limitation.
*They do it to avoid Russian teams, which tend to be premades the same as them due to their small matchmaking pool.
Not all EU alliance premades use scouts though.
I’m all in for making “If 1 accepts queue, everyone does”
If you need to afk, you leave BG, that’s simple. And lets not cry about debuff, you need afk you won’t care about debuff as when you will be back it will be either gone or couple mins left.
It’s not only alliance btw…
Im thinking more like RBG style implementation for classic , that might separate the “gods” from the casuals in a sense and if im queue solo ill be matched with and against other solo queuers and separate queue parallel for grouped pvpers. I know its never happening in classic ,but its actually the only way to make premades face one another and measure their Dx. Everything else like it or not is just facerolling inferior groups of randoms and fake boosting ego. Why fake ? Cause you will know for yourself that all u have done is to win games where u might aswell play with your feet and still win as a well coordinated and formed grp.
If they make it for example : if u have even 1 less player in the grp for wsg u cant queue at all. Get 10 or disband and queue absolutely solo. No workaround bs that way
You seem to be speaking of WSG premades only now, sorry that was my misunderstanding.
As for WSG, well, the premades scouting will always fall behind the absolute best premades that will “always win fast” as Mando put it.
It’s also a social construct, which Blizzard has always been very careful of messing with. They’ve always tried to avoid the authoritarian approach.
You’re basically saying you want there to be an incentive to keep these premades from trying to bypass such a limitation, yeah?
How?
In Russian realms for example (retail), it became a social hierarchy based on how many HKs you’ve got on a character, even though it was meaningless in the game. This alone kept them from sticking to RBGs for a challenge, to actually prefer stomping pugs in the unrated matchmaking pool.
However even this isn’t as popular as it used to be for many years, because many of them grew tired of it.
Germans were infamous for turtling in retail BGs, doing the same premade trickery as seen now. They didn’t do it for the HKs in the same sense that the Russians did though, it was just for the sake of winning. Just for that difference in the loot box at the end, and a little more honor points.
You’d need a way to completely remove the motivation to perform the premade trickery for it to work. Which would make the non-premade queues too meaningless.
This doesn’t work, it’s literally the same thing that has been used in AV now. Basically, with the trickery to create premades, why would premades aiming for more honor choose to only face other premades when they can do the trickery (if the circumstances allows it with the pool-size), to only farm pugs?
It’s the chaos that keeps it fair in the end. And the setbacks serves as a social motivation. As simple as that.
Or just make “1 for all and all for 1” - if 1 accepts queue, everyone does.
Need to afk? No problem, leave it, PUG guy will join or maybe duo/trio will join. W/e, if you need afk debuff for leaving bg isn’t a problem 
I dont know actually 
perhaps the joy and feelings that u won and defeat another great team and after time to get yourself well known and feared by others. To know that some other premade trains hard and hoping to one day be as good enough to be able to overcome yours. Or dunno. I might sound retarded now but all my nostalgia and loving memories from back there are a result of premade vs premade games that i played when we could face only ppl from same realm at the begining . The feeling to feel your enemy almost like a friend sort of things. I dont know how to explain what i mean ,but it was SO GREAT <3 ! Even enemies were friends cause they knew … they knew ur good and u win or lose was so much nore than a score or a reward. The they shattered everything with cross bg 
i couldnt see my favorite enemy friends anymore and i felt really sad. I remember this was the most breaking moment for me back then.
I think you’ll like this linked post.
But yeah, it’s not impossible to limit the formation of premades in queues not intended for premades, however for small BGs like WSG and AB I’m against it from a social perspective.
In AV however, they should either allow full raids to queue or to put in some hardcore non-randomized pattern recognition algorithms to prevent premades from being able to farm.
Because anything less, and it’ll be circumvented. It’s inevitable.
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If they allow full premades then AV will be a premade only game.
And imagine all the fun of premades representing servers, so it’s like a server war.
Beats this nonsense.
Vanilla, in its very core, was designed to be a socially immersive game. There’s no reason to strive for pleasing the solo players, when retail is already optimized for that.
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Id never forget my alliance enemy FRIENDS on Emeriss!
Hydra priest, bobthedog - dwarf paladin , Zorrisima- human rogue and Athene … and Ranger elf hunter and so on … so much memories! Tnx for your shared post! So bad most ppl dont even know the feeling and will never do!
because todays servers are nowhere near the same size has vanilla
Todays “top gamers” make alts accounts in opposite faction and then Mind control to receive a faction buff.
How f’ed up is this?
Min/maxing
This was never in Vanilla
… It was.
I’ve never heard of anyone MCing for the buffs back then, that might’ve come from pservers, but min-maxing was always a thing in vanilla. Just not as widespread as it is now.
Also, some “top gamers” back then had a 2nd account to check if a premade they didn’t wanna face was playing by checking with /who. It’s nothing new.
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